Centauro 400 SSP Bandsaw (does anyone have a manual!)

[sams93]

I seem to have made a habit out of picking up old machines in need of a bit of work...

A local workshop was getting rid of it's old bandsaw last week and I picked it up for slightly over £100 which I thought was a steal!

Its a Centauro 400 SSP, It says 'Anno di Construzione - 198' Which I assume means year of construction 198 - not sure if that is 1998 or 1980?

It 'works' as it is, but there is a moderate amount of blade vibration.

• The top guides need one of the locking screw threads which holds the thrust bearing in place re-tapped, as it slips out of place when tightened.
• The bottom guides need replacing, but the bloke who sold it to me gave me a set of bottom bearing guides which I will try to fit.
• The tyres are quite worn so I might try to replace them.
• The top wheel seems very slightly loose and there is a little bit of squeaking at times when that wheel is moved by hand - I wonder if I will need to change the bearing for the top wheel.
• Motor seems fine.
• The table needs a bit of a clean up but nothing major.
• I need to make a new dust extractor port for it.

My 'workshop' is an 8x6 shed at the moment... so clearly it won't fit in there at the moment . It's in my parents garage for now until I get a larger workshop (or I might manage to squeeze it in!!).

I have emailed Centauro but I'm not sure I will get a manual or anything off them, It doesn't seem to be a common brand or model in the UK (scott and seargent do stock Centauro machines) so I haven't found much information on a search about them - there is one really old inactive thread on here where someone had bought one but no follow up and they are no longer active on here.

I wondered if anyone had any experience with this or a similar machine, anyone had a manual for it, and then some generic advice on the work I will need to do to it!

I'll attach photos shortly!!

Thanks

 

[Ttrees]

Nice deal on that Centauro sega a nastro, try typing that into google for some more hits,
or comments on youtube perhaps.
It's probably such an extremely sparse read, that Italian would be as good.

I would try dress those vulcanized real rubber tires, because their better than anything you can buy.

Looks very similar in construction to the S45 which the lads were working on
https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/threads/scm-minimax-s45-bandsaw-teardown-overhaul.135069/

 

[sams93]

Nice deal on that Centauro sega a nastro, try typing that into google for some more hits,
or comments on youtube perhaps.
It's probably such an extremely sparse read, that Italian would be as good.

I would try dress those vulcanized real rubber tires, because their better than anything you can buy.

Thanks very much for your reply! Yes I really haven't been able to find out much about the model at all. I did get a reply from Centauro this morning but just asking for some photographs, i'm not sure what help they will be.

The one @deema and @Sideways restored looks very similar indeed in it's construction. The frame, motor mounting, guide bearings, lower wheel alignment mounting, all look almost identical. The way the table mounts is different (mine has a fixed table which cannot incline - I think this is a bit odd, I wondered if it had lost it's inclining mount at some point in its life), the wheels are very slightly different.

I'll read through that thread a bit more and watch the video you linked shortly, hopefully I'll learn some bits from that.

You mention re-dressing the rubber tyres. They are quite chewed up so I don't know how much life they have left in them - what would dressing them involve?

Thanks

 

[deema]

Bandsaws seem to fall into two categories for blade tensioning, the pull up and the push up the top wheel. If the adjuster is on the top of the machine it’s the former and if the adjuster is beneath it’s a push up. The systems for each are very similar and they all use spring(s) to apply the tension by compressing it.
There usually isn’t much info on bandsaws as they are very simple systems. If you’re lucky the best you can usually hope for is a schematic parts diagram.

The saw is a pull up system so I’d expect it to be very similar to the SCM S45 we documented. In the thread Sideways and I did I believe we provided enough technical detail for you to work out the spring constants if you need to change the springs (which is highly likely…..I’d say certain) and the actual capability of the saw.

 

[sams93]

Bandsaws seem to fall into two categories for blade tensioning, the pull up and the push up the top wheel. If the adjuster is on the top of the machine it’s the former and if the adjuster is beneath it’s a push up. The systems for each are very similar and they all use spring(s) to apply the tension by compressing it.
There usually isn’t much info on bandsaws as they are very simple systems. If you’re lucky the best you can usually hope for is a schematic parts diagram.

The saw is a pull up system so I’d expect it to be very similar to the SCM S45 we documented. In the thread Sideways and I did I believe we provided enough technical detail for you to work out the spring constants if you need to change the springs (which is highly likely…..I’d say certain) and the actual capability of the saw.

Thanks for your reply - the spring seems fine, I don't foresee any reason why I would change it. I'll study your thread closely as I do mine and I am sure that will guide me through most of it.

The rear thrust bearing on the upper guide isn't very well and looks like it will need replacing. I can find brand new ones online for £55 (more than half the price of the saw...), but i'll keep my eye out for a used one popping up somewhere

 

[RobinBHM]

I picked it up for slightly over £100 which I thought was a steal

equivalent Centauro bandsaw on Scott and Sargeant is £3,100
so yes you have done pretty well

Centauro are a mid range Italian brand that go from trade to industrial machines -similar to SCM mini max.

Personally I wouldnt worry too much about a lack of a manual, a bandsaw is a pretty basic machine and setting it up is the same for any model really.

maybe you could ring Scott and Sargeant an dask them if this is the correct manual
https://www.scosarg.ie/copy-of-manual-for-centauro-sp-bandsaw
I guess this is for a later model
http://intervesp.ddns.net/?sitemap/...Ленточно-пильные станки/Centauro/SP0305gb.pdf


the most important thing is to check the wheels go around concentrically -if not then you need to dress the tyres.



https://www.scosarg.com/centauro-sp400-band-saw-1ph

 

[sams93]

equivalent Centauro bandsaw on Scott and Sargeant is £3,100
so yes you have done pretty well

Centauro are a mid range Italian brand that go from trade to industrial machines -similar to SCM mini max.

Personally I wouldnt worry too much about a lack of a manual, a bandsaw is a pretty basic machine and setting it up is the same for any model really.

maybe you could ring Scott and Sargeant an dask them if this is the correct manual
https://www.scosarg.ie/copy-of-manual-for-centauro-sp-bandsaw
I guess this is for a later model
http://intervesp.ddns.net/?sitemap/...Ленточно-пильные станки/Centauro/SP0305gb.pdf


the most important thing is to check the wheels go around concentrically -if not then you need to dress the tyres.



https://www.scosarg.com/centauro-sp400-band-saw-1ph

Thanks for your reply - I tried the link for the manual you had found but it won't let me download it for some reason.

 

[Ttrees]

Thanks very much for your reply! Yes I really haven't been able to find out much about the model at all. I did get a reply from Centauro this morning but just asking for some photographs, i'm not sure what help they will be.

The one @deema and @Sideways restored looks very similar indeed in it's construction. The frame, motor mounting, guide bearings, lower wheel alignment mounting, all look almost identical. The way the table mounts is different (mine has a fixed table which cannot incline - I think this is a bit odd, I wondered if it had lost it's inclining mount at some point in its life), the wheels are very slightly different.

I'll read through that thread a bit more and watch the video you linked shortly, hopefully I'll learn some bits from that.

You mention re-dressing the rubber tyres. They are quite chewed up so I don't know how much life they have left in them - what would dressing them involve?

Thanks

I'd say that video or others like it might be your best bet on what you might glean from a manual...
as in whether or not it were supplied with a trunnion for the table.
It may well have been removed for greater resaw capacity or the machine could'a taken a fall.

Regarding the tires, should be quite noticeable whether they are perished or not,
and a different ball game to the quick change synthetic butyl rubber compounds found on other machines, which don't have the same longevity, and tend to crack, or fall off in sections.
Lots of folks still running original real rubber tires if you look at the old cast iron machines on say OWWM.org for example.
A wee skim might get beyond what might seem like a little bit of that happening, but totally fine under that.
I've thoroughly documented this in video format should you not wish to spend money for no good reason.
Might involve a blister on yer finger.

Regarding the S45 I mentioned, in which the lads documented some stuff, which likely is pretty much the same setup regarding the tensioner,
another thread on the a different place 2 (whomever's in charge of this place doesn't seemingly allow mention of this UK woodworking forum, but apparently links are allowed)
http://www.thewoodhaven2.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=8456&start=25
which highlighted some possible issues with you may encounter regarding the wheels.
The Centauro's seem to have a differing wheel bore arrangement to most other machines,
with a cir-clip inside as a bearing spacer, and might not be as foolproof an arrangement.

It might not take kindly to being setup badly, so some food for thought.
I'm still doing experiments regarding wheel alignment, as there's not really any documentation on the internet regarding this which is any help.
I'm getting closer, but still in the woods regarding setup, a thread I posted on TWH2 atm, which would describe that in detail.

Good laugh I got from your keeping an eye for cheap GL "euro guides" popping up sometime,
if you do find some cheap, then might as well play the lotto whilst yer at it.

You could adapt the setup to this instead
https://ncwoodworker.net/forums/index.php?threads/centauro-classico-band-saw.61462/
Good luck,
Would be interested in reading if your having bother with it, and no advice what you've found helps.
I've been wondering if that wheel design might lend itself better than the rest regarding my recent findings whilst attempting to really setup my machine, and not just merely the usual guesswork.

It might explain why Centauro are the biggest name in the business.

All the best
Tom

 

[sams93]

I'd say that video or others like it might be your best bet on what you might glean from a manual...
as in whether or not it were supplied with a trunnion for the table.
It may well have been removed for greater resaw capacity or the machine could'a taken a fall.

Regarding the tires, should be quite noticeable whether they are perished or not,
and a different ball game to the quick change synthetic butyl rubber compounds found on other machines, which don't have the same longevity, and tend to crack, or fall off in sections.
Lots of folks still running original real rubber tires if you look at the old cast iron machines on say OWWM.org for example.
A wee skim might get beyond what might seem like a little bit of that happening, but totally fine under that.
I've thoroughly documented this in video format should you not wish to spend money for no good reason.
Might involve a blister on yer finger.
View attachment 155539

Regarding the S45 I mentioned, in which the lads documented some stuff, which likely is pretty much the same setup regarding the tensioner,
another thread on the a different place 2 (whomever's in charge of this place doesn't seemingly allow mention of this UK woodworking forum, but apparently links are allowed)
http://www.thewoodhaven2.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=8456&start=25
which highlighted some possible issues with you may encounter regarding the wheels.
The Centauro's seem to have a differing wheel bore arrangement to most other machines,
with a cir-clip inside as a bearing spacer, and might not be as foolproof an arrangement.

It might not take kindly to being setup badly, so some food for thought.
I'm still doing experiments regarding wheel alignment, as there's not really any documentation on the internet regarding this which is any help.
I'm getting closer, but still in the woods regarding setup, a thread I posted on TWH2 atm, which would describe that in detail.

Good laugh I got from your keeping an eye for cheap GL "euro guides" popping up sometime,
if you do find some cheap, then might as well play the lotto whilst yer at it.

You could adapt the setup to this instead
https://ncwoodworker.net/forums/index.php?threads/centauro-classico-band-saw.61462/
Good luck,
Would be interested in reading if your having bother with it, and no advice what you've found helps.
I've been wondering if that wheel design might lend itself better than the rest regarding my recent findings whilst attempting to really setup my machine, and not just merely the usual guesswork.

It might explain why Centauro are the biggest name in the business.

All the best
Tom

Hi Tom,

Thanks for your really comprehensive reply and advice. I intend to have a proper tinker with it next week to see what needs doing and make a start so I will definitely keep this updated. I guess I will have to fork out on a new GL thrust bearing then by the sounds of it!

I will watch the videos that you have put up and have a read around to hopefully learn a good bit before I properly start.

From what I can understand at the moment, dressing the wheels involves skimming them to make them flat (or crowned, i think mine are crowned) again. I havent had a decent look yet but they seemed pretty chewed up, i'll take some photos on the weekend to help establish if that will be possible or if they will need replacing.

 

[deema]

That bandsaw wasn’t a good deal, it was highway robbery! Well done.
The rubber on the wheels should either be crowned or flat, saws are usually one or another, or in fact an intermediate sort of semi crowned! What Tom is suggesting is that if they are badly scored or rough you ‘sand them’ to be a good shape again.

What’s wrong with the guide? The face is hardened so I wouldn’t expect it to be damaged. The shaft is slotted into a bronze bush with a cir-clip holding it within the bush and then the whole thing is pressed into the body. I ran one of mine for years with a wobbly guide, made not a bit of difference if you read my thread on blade guides. They can be easily rebuilt which is what I did for the S45 and at the same time my own bandsaw. However, you do need a metalworking lathe or access to one

 

[sams93]

That bandsaw wasn’t a good deal, it was highway robbery! Well done.
The rubber on the wheels should either be crowned or flat, saws are usually one or another, or in fact an intermediate sort of semi crowned! What Tom is suggesting is that if they are badly scored or rough you ‘sand them’ to be a good shape again.

What’s wrong with the guide? The face is hardened so I wouldn’t expect it to be damaged. The shaft is slotted into a bronze bush with a cir-clip holding it within the bush and then the whole thing is pressed into the body. I ran one of mine for years with a wobbly guide, made not a bit of difference if you read my thread on blade guides. They can be easily rebuilt which is what I did for the S45 and at the same time my own bandsaw. However, you do need a metalworking lathe or access to one

I don't have the saw with me at the moment so I can't check the wheels until the weekend, however, I do have the guide to hand so I'll take some photos of it in a few hours and post them.

 

[sams93]

@deema photos of the guide in question attached.

Each of them appear to have grease nipples on them. I don’t have a grease gun but I can get them done.

The two side ones run smoothly, the rear one looks like the face is damaged and it doesn’t run smoothly.

The housing block is made of a heavy duty plastic, it seems that the thumbscrew which I am pointing to in one of the photos just skips threads as it won’t lock down. I’ll probably re-tap it a size up and replace the thumbscrew.

 

[Inspector]

Rather than re-tapping to a larger thread size and having an oddball on the machine you could do a Helicoil thread repair. Thread pitch stays the same and the repair is as strong or stronger than the parent material.

Pete

 

[deema]

@sams93 I suspect the grease nipples are for oil rather than grease. I would use oil, it will also break down any grease that’s been put in unwittingly.

The rear does not need to rotate, it should not be touching the blade when set properly. I don’t see any reason to replace it. I would if it’s rough run it on an oil stone / diamond stone / favourite sharpening medium.

I would as Inspector has suggested helicoil to keep all threads the same, or tap both sides to keep it consistent.

 

[deema]

Have a read of the following it might help your decide what is the best thing to do about your blade guides.

https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/threads/bandsaw-blade-guide-theory.135481/

 

[sams93]

Rather than re-tapping to a larger thread size and having an oddball on the machine you could do a Helicoil thread repair. Thread pitch stays the same and the repair is as strong or stronger than the parent material.

Pete

Makes complete sense. I don't own a helicoil kit but I can see the individual helicoils aren't expensive. Is there a way of doing this without the rest of the kit.

It looks just like a threaded insert (to be fair I could just use an ordinary threaded insert no?

 

[Inspector]

You have to use the kit. The tap has to duplicate the thread pitch you are replacing in a bigger diameter therefore it isn't a standard tap and the drill is also sized for it. You may or be able to get the drill bit separately but it's easier to use what comes in the kit. Now if you can find a different kind of insert that will work like a Keansert (requires drilling a bigger hole though) then you could go that way but Helicoils are a standard and proven method. If you know any mechanics they may have a set and might fix it for a nominal amount........or try to gouge the heck out of you.

Pete

 

[sams93]

You have to use the kit. The tap has to duplicate the thread pitch you are replacing in a bigger diameter therefore it isn't a standard tap and the drill is also sized for it. You may or be able to get the drill bit separately but it's easier to use what comes in the kit. Now if you can find a different kind of insert that will work like a Keansert (requires drilling a bigger hole though) then you could go that way but Helicoils are a standard and proven method. If you know any mechanics they may have a set and might fix it for a nominal amount........or try to gouge the heck out of you.

Pete

Would I not be able to use something like this?

https://www.screwfix.com/p/suki-dri...VjNLtCh2-fwe_EAQYBCABEgIZlfD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

 

[Inspector]

Those are a wood insert and expect they are too thick to use and where are you going to get a tap for those outside threads? Are you certain that is plastic and not metal of some kind?

Pete

 

[sams93]

Those are a wood insert and expect they are too thick to use and where are you going to get a tap for those outside threads? Are you certain that is plastic and not metal of some kind?

Pete

100% certain they are plastic, that’s why I was thinking I could get away with drilling and then threading it in