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doctor Bob

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The question u all keep asking us is being answered, then you all get moody because it wasn’t what u wanted to hear. Why is that our problem. I still am struggling to comprehend how stating nothing has changed for me is “gloating and jeering” maybe I should be self flagulating myself for having a very average unchanging lifestyle.
 
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doctor Bob

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Good program on R4 about luvvies telling porkies about their working class roots. Lot of pretenders out there. It’ll come out that jacob is public school and owns second home
 

artie

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We have elections every five years which all politicians know means they risk losing their job if they annoy the electorate.
I;m not much into politics and in my opinion party politics is the worst idea ever for the electorate.
Also I find it hard to find any substantial difference between parties, once elected.
 

RobinBHM

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If you gotta go look for it, maybe it isn't there? :unsure:



Brexit: 71 pages of paperwork for 1 lorry of fish



Almost 10,000 EU health workers have quit NHS since Brexit vote


nothing to see here chaps, I cant see any problems whatsoever
 

Misterdog

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current politicians are driven by vested self interest.
If only it were just the current ones.
I see party political dogma, as I see religion. People are wedded to an ideology and frame their world, to provide a perfect world, within that frame.
They then spend their lives trying to convince others that their vision/religion/politics is the one true path.

Sorry but I'm out.
I'll stick with the flawed democracy that we enjoy, 'other politics' is equally flawed.
Anyone who believes otherwise is the reason that the word dogma was created.
 

RobinBHM

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How is the UK going to protect the fishing industry.

What is the solution?

brexit is done, weve left the SM and CU, I know that. This isnt a discussion about pros and cons.

It is now a discussion of what can we do to stop the damage - these problems arent simply teething troubles -they will make many businesses unviable.

Unfortunately brexiters dont understand the benefits of the Single Market, until they do, Im not sure how we move forward.





Here is one example of the huge problems of extra paperwork

this is one example of an export health certificate for one lorry

 

sploo

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So now the gang are saying it’s not a proper democracy ....... dear oh dear, maybe we should switch to the eu version where just one nominee is put forward and she still just scrapped in.
Maybe an African style democracy
I dont think that's what Robin was saying. It is democracy, it's just that it's being perverted by well funded groups deceiving the electorate into voting against their own personal interests. Not that it's a UK specific problem; the US probably "leads" the world on that.

As pointed about several pages back, an irony of the large, lumbering, multi-national nature of the EU means that it's a bit harder for such lobbying groups to manipulate.
 

RobinBHM

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If only it were just the current ones.
it isnt just the current ones and most Western democracies arent very re democratic.

But the current government in this government have taken self interest to a massive new level.

look at the connections they have to: US libertarian groups, propaganda think tanks, private healthcare, disaster capitalism, fossil fuel interest, climate change deniers

 

RobinBHM

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Where would you rather be for your Covid vaccination ?


  • The UK: 9.79m

  • Germany: 2.47m

  • Italy: 1.99m
  • France: 1.53m.
I am happy to say the UK has done very well with the vaccination programme and would not have been likely within the EU.

however, that was not the point being made. Vaccination success doesnt remove or diminish trade problems or the massive division over the last 4 years

perhaps I might say Id have preferred less than 100,000 deaths and 10,000 more NHS nurses in exchange for a slower vaccinatoin roll out.
 

sploo

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The question u all keep asking us is being answered, then you all get moody because it wasn’t what u wanted to hear. Why is that our problem. I still am struggling to comprehend how stating nothing has changed for me is “gloating and jeering” maybe I should be self flagulating myself for having a very average unchanging lifestyle.
The thing is that plenty has changed for you (and me, and the rest of us); it's just that for most the changes may not be immediately obvious.

If every time you left your house someone now insisted you fill in a long form before you drive your car you'd be very clearly inconvenienced. Obviously that's not happening; but any goods coming in and out of the country are now requiring such paperwork, thus leading to an increase in costs. That inevitably will have a knock on effect on anything you buy (e.g. even food).

That's a minor example, and the impact to political and personal rights and freedoms will likely be much harder to quantify, but most definitely present.
 

doctor Bob

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The thing is that plenty has changed for you (and me, and the rest of us); it's just that for most the changes may not be immediately obvious.

If every time you left your house someone now insisted you fill in a long form before you drive your car you'd be very clearly inconvenienced. Obviously that's not happening; but any goods coming in and out of the country are now requiring such paperwork, thus leading to an increase in costs. That inevitably will have a knock on effect on anything you buy (e.g. even food).

That's a minor example, and the impact to political and personal rights and freedoms will likely be much harder to quantify, but most definitely present.
That wasn’t the question, stop manipulating things
 

doctor Bob

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I dont think that's what Robin was saying. It is democracy, it's just that it's being perverted by well funded groups deceiving the electorate into voting against their own personal interests. Not that it's a UK specific problem; the US probably "leads" the world on that.

As pointed about several pages back, an irony of the large, lumbering, multi-national nature of the EU means that it's a bit harder for such lobbying groups to manipulate.
Yet having only one leader too elect is fine, you are really rubbing up too each other today
 

RobinBHM

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I dont think that's what Robin was saying. It is democracy, it's just that it's being perverted by well funded groups deceiving the electorate into voting against their own personal interests. Not that it's a UK specific problem; the US probably "leads" the world on that.

As pointed about several pages back, an irony of the large, lumbering, multi-national nature of the EU means that it's a bit harder for such lobbying groups to manipulate.
yes indeed

The specific point I was making is that the democratic belief that the government wont deregulate because they are scared the people will vote against them.....is not true.


the North have had decades of under investment and yet they voted for brexit and the ideology that led to that under investment.
Brexit wont bring jobs back to the industrial regions. Brexit will concentrate jobs into the city and the South East.

Brexit damage will mean support for it will wane over the next few years, as people drop ideology when it really affects their life. But brexit is a boiling frog -a bit like austerity, it will happen slowly, people wont notice the decline.
 

sploo

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Where would you rather be for your Covid vaccination ?


  • The UK: 9.79m

  • Germany: 2.47m

  • Italy: 1.99m
  • France: 1.53m.
Noel will purge this thread of covid related posts as they're off topic.

The actual situation with these numbers is much more insidious and misleading. My (doctor) wife has just written a piece on this in answer to a question from a family member, and it's eye-watering to read. I don't know if there is a suitable thread on the forum, but if she's OK with it I could PM you a copy?
 
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