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Argus

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"................could we keep political threads in the Off Topic section, and the rest of the forum politics free please? ..................."

Not at all political - in fact very pertinent to us woodworkers.

Many of us regularly buy tools and other equipment direct from the EU.
Getting an unexpected bill like that detailed in the report is something to be vary wary of.

.
 

Cheshirechappie

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All right.

Consider this - the trade deal negotiated between the EU and the UK was agreed on 24 December 2020. That gave no time for the relevant Civil Services either side of the Channel to formulate guidance to businesses, still less for businesses to find out what the new rules were or incorporate them into their sales procedures, before the agreement came into force on 1st January 2021, just three weeks ago. Had the agreement been reached six months before, there would have been plenty of time for that to happen, and the change would have been rather more seamless.

Give it a few days or weeks while everybody works out what they should be doing, and it'll all settle down.

Remember, we buy and sell stuff from non-EU countries, mostly without much fuss. It's not THAT new or different.
 

AES

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@Argus: Agreed that your post wasn't political - nor do I think it was intended to be - but as a member here for 18 years you MUST have noticed that there are certain subjects on here which are, to say the least, always extremely "sensitive".

And you must have seen that anything to do with Brexit is definitely a subject that has ALWAYS fallen into the "hotly-disputed/ entrenched opinions" category.

So while I'm sure that your motives were "pure" in just sending out a warning to anyone in UK wanting to buy stuff from the EU during the next few weeks, I'm also sure that you'll agree that "political" or not, your post will (hopefully now only "would") be turned into yet another political rant thread.

Personally I think that Cheshirechappie is quite right - for whatever reason/s, the UK/EU agreement has only just been signed off and with Christmas, New Year, AND Covid all going on as well, even with the best will in the world on all sides, it must take the civil servants in all the affected countries some time - weeks? months? - to turn the signed agreement into actual working procedures.

In other words, if necessary to post at all, it surely would have been enough for you to say something along the lines of QUOTE: Suggest any potential buyers of stuff from the EU hold off for a few weeks or more until all the procedures have been properly put into practice. At present it seems that UK buyers of stuff from the EU COULD face customs charges running into hundreds of quid. UNQUOTE:

Posted with respect Argus
 

julianf

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The lack of vat synchronisation is not a "teething" issue.

Higher level transactions will smooth out in time, however, consumer level transactions are stuffed, and will be forever.

There are costs involved with vat collection. Royal mail has been overcharging for them for years, but there are still costs regardless.

To say "we have been doing it fine elsewhere for years" neglects the minimum £8 (+vat) charge that RM etc have been applying to non EU transactions for years.

Again, say goodbye to buying without additional costs, but, way way more importantly, all those firms serving EU consumers directly now have additional costs implied.

If those firms are specialist low volume firms, legitimately working under the UK vat registration threshold, the situation becomes even worse, as, not only are their products suddenly 20% more expensive to EU customers, their customers will also be hit with clearance fees.

I would imagine that there would be a number of specialist wood workers in this class.

I am in this class with specialist metal work.

I know someone who builds custom wood burners. He has (well had) built up a good EU presence.

These are not teething issues. The lack of vat synchronisation isn't about people learning how to fill in forms better. It is, in a lot of cases, a terminal barrier to specialist low volume direct to consumer trades.
 

Droogs

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Seems that there may also be a CITES admin charge as species are now crossing international trade bouderies as well to come into the uk from EU states
 

MickCheese

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I have bought a couple of thing from Germany in the past few weeks, one was about £50 the other nearly £200. Not woodworking but musical instrument related.

Neither had any issues, neither had any duties added. So from a personal point, it hasn't affected me.

Be careful about listening to naysayers.

Mick
 

Setch

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I have bought a couple of thing from Germany in the past few weeks, one was about £50 the other nearly £200. Not woodworking but musical instrument related.

Neither had any issues, neither had any duties added. So from a personal point, it hasn't affected me.

Be careful about listening to naysayers.

Mick
Possibly you've been lucky - back when I bought stuff from Stew Mac in the States semi-regularly, I had a good initial run of deliveries without attracting duty, followed by a much larger spell of getting hit with duty and admin fees which made a painful difference to my pocket.
 

MickCheese

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I too got stung by Stew Mac, but remember they are not in Europe. Maybe a deal with the USA will make it possible to order from there without a hefty bill to the post office.

Mick
 

julianf

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Dear julian,

UPS have made us aware of severe delays to all international parcels due to the multiple changes recently enforced by Brexit. As a result UPS have stopped any further international parcel bookings through Parcel2Go and all other major partners.
So there you have it - one of the major players in the courier market saying that they can not be bothered with the issues from brexit.

Or, in business speak, they can not conduct their usual trade at profit due to brexit.
 

Peterm1000

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......

Remember, we buy and sell stuff from non-EU countries, mostly without much fuss. It's not THAT new or different.
Really? I don't think I've ever bought anything from a non-EU country and had it imported into the UK. I think 99.9% of people don't.

There are all kinds of ramifications that are not going away in 2-3 weeks - not least product liability. There was an awful story on here about some poor chap who had cut off his arm with a mitre saw. Imagine that mitre saw had done that because it was defective from the point of manufacture. Imagine you had bought that mitre saw new 5 years earlier direct from the tool supplier in Germany and that it was originally manufactured in China. Under EU law, the first person to import something into the EU has product liability FOREVER so the German company would be on the hook. Now that the UK is not part of the EU and the UK mirrored EU law on this, what matters is the first importer into the UK - you. So if you do buy a tool from Germany and import it into the UK and it turns out to be defective 10 years later, you are liable.

If you haven't had duties added, it's not because you don't owe them. It's because you weren't caught yet and you didn't correctly declare what was being imported. That is no different to changing what you say you earned on your tax return.
 

novocaine

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WHAT leaving the EU has negative effects, surely not, dont be daft, i shall not here it,i shall stick my fingers in my ears my thumb up my pineapple and pretend it cant be true.

Get bent, i want to say bottom hole and dam well say it, i dont have a pineapple to take a dump out of.
 

Cheshirechappie

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By 'we' I meant the UK generally. However, more specifically, there are people on this forum and elsewhere that have in the past bought woody stuff from the USA, Canada, and probably Japan. Maybe elsewhere, too. So it's not new.

As for the rest of your comment - don't really see what you're getting at. EU countries are now just like the rest of the world, and we trade with quite a lot other countries. We seem to import quite a lot of stuff from China, so presumably the importers understand and accept their liabilities.

Personally, I'm trying to buy less stuff made in China these days. But that's another topic.
 

Noel

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Really? I don't think I've ever bought anything from a non-EU country and had it imported into the UK. I think 99.9% of people don't.

There are all kinds of ramifications that are not going away in 2-3 weeks - not least product liability. There was an awful story on here about some poor chap who had cut off his arm with a mitre saw. Imagine that mitre saw had done that because it was defective from the point of manufacture. Imagine you had bought that mitre saw new 5 years earlier direct from the tool supplier in Germany and that it was originally manufactured in China. Under EU law, the first person to import something into the EU has product liability FOREVER so the German company would be on the hook. Now that the UK is not part of the EU and the UK mirrored EU law on this, what matters is the first importer into the UK - you. So if you do buy a tool from Germany and import it into the UK and it turns out to be defective 10 years later, you are liable.

If you haven't had duties added, it's not because you don't owe them. It's because you weren't caught yet and you didn't correctly declare what was being imported. That is no different to changing what you say you earned on your tax return.

Indeed, some simply don't understand/don't want to believe how duties and taxes work or how HMRC is applying recently introduced regulations.

I too got stung by Stew Mac, but remember they are not in Europe. Maybe a deal with the USA will make it possible to order from there without a hefty bill to the post office.

Mick
US FTA? Will make no difference, taxes and duties again, with admin charges of course.
 

powertools

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Please not another Brexit thread the last one caused lasting damage to this woodworking forum and we could do without that again.
Noel in your position as a mod on the forum you would be well advised to delete this topic rather than get involved.
Perhaps we could revisit this topic in 12 months time when things have settled down.
 

paulrbarnard

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Possibly you've been lucky - back when I bought stuff from Stew Mac in the States semi-regularly, I had a good initial run of deliveries without attracting duty, followed by a much larger spell of getting hit with duty and admin fees which made a painful difference to my pocket.
The problem started when the U.K. government permitted carriers to charge a ridiculous handling fee to process tax payments on your behalf. This immediately became a lucrative income source for them. Unfortunately they are all set up to do this automatically so applying it to EU shipping is inevitable.
 

Argus

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The problem started when the U.K. government permitted carriers to charge a ridiculous handling fee to process tax payments on your behalf. This immediately became a lucrative income source for them. Unfortunately they are all set up to do this automatically so applying it to EU shipping is inevitable.
That is precisely the point raised in the newspaper article that I quoted in the initial part of this post. Carriers are allowed an open day on disproportionate costs for collecting the levies.

An aspect of the post that seems to have eluded the writers of the initial responses that came up.
 

AES

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@Peterm1000: You wrote, QUOTE: Under EU law, the first person to import something into the EU has product liability FOREVER so the German company would be on the hook. UNQUOTE:

Sorry you are completely wrong on that point, which I happen to KNOW for a fact.

But just as Cheshirechappie predicted, this thread has already started to get "silly", and IME of similar previous threads here, it's not going to get any better, whatever the OP's intentions.

On the contrary, in all likelihood it's going to get worse, and quickly.

Suggest the mods stop it NOW - IMO we just don't need this sort of junk here.

IF we need anything at all, it's simply a suggestion to wait awhile before buying anything from "anywhere overseas". End of!

And NO Argus - the aspect of couriers being able to charge almost whatever they like for "admin" is NOT lost on a lot of us who've been living outside the EU for YEARS!
 
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