Barley twist stems

[Cooper]

I have been trying to make some small candle sticks with a barley twist stem. I make them from bits of logs of Bay wood. At the moment I cut the twist with a rasp and then smooth the surface with glass paper.
It takes a lot of effort with the rasp and I wonder if any one has a more efficient method to make the twist.
I also find it difficult to achieve the same pitch for left and right threads. I made a little guide with of two strips bolted together, which I could turn over to achieve the reflected angle but its difficult to hold steady and file at the same time when I begin the thread.
At the moment I turn the stem and base separately then fit them together to cut the twist.
I've made a few as gifts and they are quite popular, being a change from bowls!
Any advice or observations would be most welcome.
Thanks
Martin

 

[Inspector]

Once upon a time you could get a router master, made by Trend I think, that would let you cut spirals etc. There is also a machine called Legacy Ornamental Mill I think that could do the same and much more. There was a member here (timber) with one hoping to find others with them. He put it up for sale in March. For Sale - REVO LATHE MILL Both kinds are scarce but operate on the principal of a router being drawn along the spindle with cables attached to the spindle so as it rotated it moved the router along. You can make one if creative and have the tools but looking for those machines would be easier if you can find one.

Pete

 

[Adam Pinson]

I have been trying to make some small candle sticks with a barley twist stem. I make them from bits of logs of Bay wood. At the moment I cut the twist with a rasp and then smooth the surface with glass paper.
It takes a lot of effort with the rasp and I wonder if any one has a more efficient method to make the twist.
I also find it difficult to achieve the same pitch for left and right threads. I made a little guide with of two strips bolted together, which I could turn over to achieve the reflected angle but its difficult to hold steady and file at the same time when I begin the thread.
At the moment I turn the stem and base separately then fit them together to cut the twist.
I've made a few as gifts and they are quite popular, being a change from bowls!
Any advice or observations would be most welcome.
Thanks
Martin

View attachment 111019

 

[TRITON]

Once upon a time you could get a router master, made by Trend I think, that would let you cut spirals etc. There is also a machine called Legacy Ornamental Mill I think that could do the same and much more. There was a member here (timber) with one hoping to find others with them. He put it up for sale in March. For Sale - REVO LATHE MILL Both kinds are scarce but operate on the principal of a router being drawn along the spindle with cables attached to the spindle so as it rotated it moved the router along. You can make one if creative and have the tools but looking for those machines would be easier if you can find one.

Pete

Called 'Router Lathe'
Apparently the last one sold on ebay end of april this year (pipper, always wanted one)
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Trend-Ro...=true&nordt=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557Why is it, you forget about things, then suddenly are reminded only to find one or so just sold on ebay for a song. How annoying.

But at least it shows they are still popping up time to time.

 

[Inspector]

Not sure if the link will work but here are images to a Sears Craftsman Router Crafter. I got one locally from a club member that he had inherited from his dad ages ago that he had used a few times. It has the manual and a little Sears router, and most of the HSS bits for it too. He sold it to me for $50Can. I haven't used it yet but see some possibilities in the future so I'm happy to keep it.

Craftsman router crafter

Pete

 

[JobandKnock]

Isn't there a design for a homecmade one on one of Bill Hylton's books?

 

[scooby]

Nice work Martin. They look excellent.
Jon

 

[Cooper]

Thanks for all the suggestions. A friend has one of those jigs and he cut all his staircase spindles with it, though the bottoms of the flutes are square. I suppose you can get a less square cutter to give a more natural section to the twist. As we can now make social calls I'll pay him a visit.
I've been rather inspired, as many of us are by Adam W's carving postings, where so much that he shows us is all done by hand. I wondered if a carving tool technique might be less exhausting than hand filing. But as I turn the piece round by hand as its shaped I can't see how its possible to "Keep both hands behind the cutting edge" as we had drilled into us as young kids. As I'm on blood thinners the last thing I want to do is push a gouge into my hand! Barley twist is such an old decoration I wonder how it was done in the "Olden Days"?

 

[TRITON]

Not sure if the link will work but here are images to a Sears Craftsman Router Crafter. I got one locally from a club member that he had inherited from his dad ages ago that he had used a few times. It has the manual and a little Sears router, and most of the HSS bits for it too. He sold it to me for $50Can. I haven't used it yet but see some possibilities in the future so I'm happy to keep it.

Craftsman router crafter

Pete

It didnt give anything but general images, but here's a vid.

 

[Robbo3]

Stuart Mortimer is the master of barley twists & it's amazing how fast he can produce them by hand.
- https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCm80uurWmbNKpXtRoB5ga1A/videos
- http://www.stuartmortimer.com/

 

[Yojevol]

The problem with the Router Lathes is that they have a fixed thread pitch which is determined by the cable drum diameter. It's this that converts the lateral motion of the router into the rotational motion of the workpiece.
If anybody reading this is interested, I have a Trend which I'd like to find a new home for.
Brian

 

[Adam W.]

Interesting thread this.

I have plans to make a couple of solomonic columns like this, but obviously not something which is going to hold up St. Pauls., just a little bit smaller.

 

[gregmcateer]

Nice looking pieces, Cooper.

I watched Richard Findley cutting them by hand.
He marked out very carefully, which should help with symmetry, (you may have already done this, so apologies if teaching egg sucking).
For shaping, he used several sized micro planes, which he said are the best he's found.
It was pretty quick, tbf.

 

[gregmcateer]

Interesting thread this.

I have plans to make a couple of solomonic columns like this, but obviously not something which is going to hold up St. Pauls., just a little bit smaller.

Oh come on, Adam, smaller?? You're slacking

 

[J-G]

The problem with the Router Lathes is that they have a fixed thread pitch which is determined by the cable drum diameter. It's this that converts the lateral motion of the router into the rotational motion of the workpiece.
If anybody reading this is interested, I have a Trend which I'd like to find a new home for.
Brian

Is it possible to change the size of the cable drum (on the Trend) ? I appreciate that may also need a different length of cable but could that be accommodated by the use of an idler?

 

[Adam W.]

Oh come on, Adam, smaller?? You're slacking

Well, I can get 2' Ø over the bed, but I might have to extend it a bit.......the workshop, that is.

 

[MikeJhn]

Couple of useful links for router lathe enthusiasts:
https://www.routerforums.com/threads/sears-router-crafter-need-drive-adapter.16485/
https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/threads/trend-router-lathe.107875/

 

[Cooper]

(you may have already done this, so apologies if teaching egg sucking).

Certainly not teaching to suck eggs. I'm completely new to this. I was of the opinion that if I set my rasp to the right angle by eye just turning the spindle would pull the tool along. Ive been fascinated by barley twists since I was a little boy hiding under my great aunts gate leg table. Its only now I have the time to master the process myself.

 

[Cooper]

I have plans to make a couple of solomonic columns like this, but obviously not something which is going to hold up St. Pauls., just a little bit smaller.

I hadn't realised that the columns were wood until your picture. Another fascinating thing about carvings at St Paul's are the carved pigeons on the frieze around the outside (I know its stone) all of them are different. You can see the style of the individual carvers. One day I was in the city far too early for a meeting I spent an hour making circuits around the building trying to spot the styles and differences. I didn't have a camera with me so I'll have to make another visit when the weather improves.
Martin

 

[Paul Hannaby]

I make goblets with twist stems (all turned from a single piece of wood) and just do them by eye with files and sand on the lathe. On that scale, it's close enough to look right but for bigger ones, Stuart Mortimer's book explains the marking out.
If you want to see how I do it, this video on turning goblets might help.