Accurate combination square?

[gidon]

Can anyone recommend one and where to get it?
Are any of them accurate compared to engineer's squares? I find my toolbox one very useful for diy stuff but fancy having an accurate one for the workshop - handy for machine setup apart from anything else. 6" or 12".
Thanks,
Gidon

 

[ike]

Hi Gidon,

I've found this excellent VFM and precise.

cheers,

Ike

 

[DaveL]

I have that one as well, nice tool, use it a lot.

 

[Alf]

Yeah, I have that one too; at least the one they were selling a couple of years ago. I have a feeling I looked at it in the shop more recently and it wasn't quite the same, fwiw.

Cheers, Alf

 

[AndyBoyd]

Me too, found it to very accurate, mind you I only use the 90 deg bit the other stuff just hangs round in a drawer of my tool cabinet

 

[jasonB]

Why not push the boat out and get a decent Moore & Wright one only around £175.00 plus vat, as with everything you get what you pay for :lol:

Jason

 

[gidon]

Wow - unusual to get such a consistant response from forum members!
Was looking at that one but with no name behind it was dubious. Alf's comments worry me a little - Axminster have a habit of doing that.
Jason - thanks for that! Maybe slightly out my budget - although I was looking at the Starrettones ...
Cheers
Gidon

 

[ike]

Gidon,

I'm not suggesting anyone would nitpick. Granted an engineering machinist probably wouldn't consider anything less than Mitutoyo, Starrett ot M&W kit in his toolbox, but the Axminster offering for £30 is a no-brainer. It's spot on for woodwork. Alf's point noted tho mine is grey bout 4 years old and probably Chawainese - it's good. I suspect the latest one is very, very similar other than the blue paint - still a no-brainer IMO and worth a punt.

cheers,

Ike

 

[engineer one]

i would certainly spring for the starrett after all these years, they
are the dogs until you can afford an M&W

the biggest problem with the cheaper ones is that the slot in the ruler
and the spring and tang thing inside the right angled bit are a little
sloppy, and maybe a little out. have to say probably good enough for most woodworking, but the thing to do is check it out with
the old trick of drawing vertical lines along a known straight edge.

i use a couple for checking things on my tormek blade setter.

go for it
paul :wink:

 

[Philly]

Gidon
I don't trust my combo squares-I use them for general work only. When you see the area that the blade is bedded against, and when you think of the wear over time as you slide it through the body you can't really expect it to be 100% accurate. Since I started using engineers squares there has been no going back.
And don't let anyone say " good enough for woodworking"! Since when were we happy to accept "nearly square"?? :wink:
Food for thought,
Philly

 

[gidon]

Because it'll be handy for machine setup too it does need to be accurate. I'll have a look at the Axminster one when I'm next there. Or I'll bite the bullet on one of the Starrett ones - would need to find some specs on them first.
Philly - I have a range of M&R )) engineer's squares that I use all the time. But I still find a combi square a useful tool. And agree it has to be square - a least as square as I can measure.
Thanks all
Cheers
Gidon

 

[engineer one]

ah, philly sorry to open the old "sore"

but as we have discussed before elsewhere, the walls a'int square,
and unless you are using sheet goods, then "real" wood can
deform. :twisted:

i agree that we should be as "square" as possible, but often something
that looks square is actually not because of its placement. :?

the whole concept of square in woodworking to me depends upon whether
the item being made is freestanding, or built in.

now if only we could get the builders to make square walls and we
would all be happier :lol:

paul :wink:

 

[Philly]

You are right, Paul, it is an old topic! But take a look at the recent Jet PT fence tolerence and you'll see members getting worked up over 0.3 of a mm. So an accurate square is a NECESSITY for high quality work.
And I agree, our chosen material is a moving, compressible one. But a tight fitting joint line is a tight fitting joint line-20 ton of clamp pressure to achieve this is not good woodworking in my book :lol:
Cheers
Philly
P.s. Gidon, just looking through Tilgear's catalogue-they have workshop grade combo squares for reasonable money, as well as the Mitu, M+W and Starrett.

 

[engineer one]

hey phil i have no complaint about arguing for the most accuracy.

as an engineer, that's is what we aim for.

however, when you fit a kitchen door with a "european" hinge,
you do get three way adjustment which suggests even the units
will not be square, and the way some fitters fix them, that is true.

i am like you, unsure why gidon needs a combi when he has
an engineers square. for angles, he could use a number of items,
including bevel gauges etc.

the other suggestion is to get a framing square, and one of those
veritas devices which slides on and fixes and allows you to overhang
the framing square over the side of a sheet.

but what you are suggesting phil i agree with, but surely that is
a function of the way in which you cut into, or along the
marking line???? : :twisted:

paul :wink:

 

[RogerS]

Are any of these squares adjustable? Just a thought but, if they were, then one could apply the principle of getting a square that was as close to 90degrees as possible but not use it for day-to-day work, It would be locked away and used as a reference for the one that you DO use on a daily basis.

I know that I do that for my straight-edge (which happens to be a Stabila level but remarkably straight and uniform along the entire length...maybe I was lucky :wink: ). It only sees the light of day when I need to check the levels on my infeed/outfeed tables. I (ab)use another one for day to day work, setting out etc.

 

[Inspector]

I have a Starrett combination set in forged steel rather than the more common cast steel. I have 4 scales (rules) that I ordered at the same time. 12" & 24" marked in fraction and decimal along with the equivalent pair in metric, 300mm & 600mm. They are accurate and worth the money. (I really like these toys. ) I bought through industrial suppliers that sell the full ranges of measuring tools rather than from woodworking companies that only inventory a single set that they think will sell the best. I've had the use of a Mitutoyo set at work and it's also good, but it doesn't look or have the refined feel of the Starrett. The opposite to the digital micrometers that the two companies make, where the Japanese is better.

http://catalog.starrett.com/catalog/cat ... Mode=PLIST

 

[MikeW]

...
And don't let anyone say " good enough for woodworking"! Since when were we happy to accept "nearly square"?? :wink:
Food for thought,
Philly

Someone "has" to...if a square is square enough, it is good enough :lol:

But even my Tumico, Starrett, Brown and Sharpe etc., should be checked periodically. Which to me is the best arguement for having a couple engineer's squares that are only used to confirm square in the other tools. Likewise, I have blocks to check my engineer's squares and calipers against. But I don't use the reference tools for, well, work.

If one has known references and knows how to adjust other tools, even lesser tools will produce acceptable results.

My favorite squares are try squares and my 4" B&S double square. These are checked often against the reference tools. They are spot on nearly at all times. But when they are not, they are adjusted.

I do think we as woodworkers fret more over perfection in tools--not just layout tools--far more than makers before us who had by and large greater output and pretty darn nice work.

OK. I'll leave now :wink:

Take care, Mike

 

[engineer one]

mike, as usual you make a valid point.
remember how crude the tools were when they used the
pyramids, indeed, we are still not sure how they did it.

and remember philly greek columns are bowed over their height to
give the impression of being straight.

since we have now gotten used to fettling our planes and chisels,
maybe we really should think more about fettling our marking and
trying instruments.

i agree it is useful to have a set of reference tools that are not
actually used, but how many of us keep to it

and i am an engineer :twisted: :roll:

i think that we have to be aware that everything we make has
to be in relation to the room in which it is placed.

if something is too square and the room is not the item will look
out of square

paul :wink:

 

[gidon]

Thanks everyone.
Philly - as ever forgot about Tilgear - they do have a good range. The Mitutoyo for ~£50 looks very tempting ...
Roger - not quite sure how you adjust a combi square for square - Mike?
Cheers
Gidon

 

[llangatwgnedd]

not quite sure how you adjust a combi square for square

Run a hacksaw blade down the center line