If you really do not want to waste any energy then take the Nextgen concept a step further, use heated clothing to directly keep you warm and then the heating system only needs to keep the chill of.
a new era of low cost, accessible and efficient heating?
- Thread starter Jacob
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Jacob
New Luddism. Wake up and resist.
But you can get more personal warmth if the same heat is delivered in a different way
both
This seems to be one of the better established and most reputable brands. No complaint with it except the price for what is ultimately a length of resistance wire embedded in something solid.
Agent_zed
Established Member
Why waste heat on the room when you can just wear one of these https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/40443374...s=ispr=1&amdata=enc:1KXyOstwRQhOEgLb6Q6G2gg47.
Guests can have a foil blanket like a marathon runner.
Tris
What am I doing here?
Ever watch Red Dwarf?
Agent_zed
Established Member
This ^
but in addition to just adding more insulation I believe developers should be being forced to incorporate passive solar heating. You dont just have to add heat from gas/elec
There is a new building estate going up near me and they are 1950 style brick houses facing everywhich way. If they were designed to face south with large overhangs so in the winter they get solar gain and in summer they are shaded, you could reduce the amount of energy required to heat them dramatically. Coupled with green roofs to add to insulation and cooling in summer. Solar PV or water heating and they would require very little input from the grid.
I just don't get why everyone wants ultra modern everything else and then developers build the same old boring houses with no innovation. I'd have thought people would love a house that is ultra efficient instead of worrying if they can afford the elec/gas.
having said that, I walk past more and more houses that have tarmac'd over their front gardens to make room for more cars, so what do I know
All the big powertool brands will sell you an 18V hoodie or waistcoat, and motorcyclists have been using heated gear for years
John Brown
Freeloading Social media influenza
Heat rises?
Why does ice form on the top of a pond?
Jacob
New Luddism. Wake up and resist.
Yes glass is good - I'm planning to have lean-to greenhouse as a porch for my new workshop (garage conversion). It should heat the workshop much of the time and double doors through would mean covered space if I need to bung anything long through my PT. And be a nice space too.This ^
but in addition to just adding more insulation I believe developers should be being forced to incorporate passive solar heating. You dont just have to add heat from gas/elec
There is a new building estate going up near me and they are 1950 style brick houses facing everywhich way. If they were designed to face south with large overhangs so in the winter they get solar gain and in summer they are shaded, you could reduce the amount of energy required to heat them dramatically. Coupled with green roofs to add to insulation and cooling in summer. Solar PV or water heating and they would require very little input from the grid.
I just don't get why everyone wants ultra modern everything else and then developers build the same old boring houses with no innovation. I'd have thought people would love a house that is ultra efficient instead of worrying if they can afford the elec/gas.
having said that, I walk past more and more houses that have tarmac'd over their front gardens to make room for more cars, so what do I know
The greenhouse idea can be really tiny in volume, down to "Trombe Wall" depth, but still gain massive amounts of heat.
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Woody2Shoes
Impressive Member
Because, during the night, the heat that was in the top of the water radiated out into space (i.e. it rose). HTH
Serious question or a joke ?
(Sorry, 'cos it's high school physics/chemistry and a bit of a novelty so almost certainly covered in school)
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John Brown
Freeloading Social media influenza
Because, during the night, the heat that was in the top of the water radiated out into space (i.e. it rose). HTH
I know why. I was merely being pedantic about "heat rises" hot air rises, heat doesn't. Warmer water doesn't always, either.
HamsterJam
Let’s take it apart to see what’s inside….
Reading through the corporate jargon, it appears to boil down to electric panel heaters stuck to the ceiling.
That’ll be a NO from me then.
That’ll be a NO from me then.
John Brown
Freeloading Social media influenza
Unfortunately, when the price of energy rockets, the snake oil sellers have a field day. How many times have I seen those adverts for a tiny electric heater that heats the whole room in femtoseconds for pennies.
Not that I'm saying Nextgen is definitely snake oil, but if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck...
Not that I'm saying Nextgen is definitely snake oil, but if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck...
My take on the concept is that they are expecting significant energy reduction through active control and optimization of actual temperature and perceived temperature. Rooms will run at a somewhat lower temperature most of the time, due to the technology actively heating the occupant rather than the air, and will run at a considerably lower temperature some of the time, due to only heating rooms that are used. Thus reducing energy loss as this is driven by the difference between internal and external temperature. I would expect much of their IP is associated with the control and optimization software rather than the heat panels.
The concept is I think somewhat unique and has some merits, however the website does them no favors as it stinks of snake-oil, i expect they used ChatGPT or similar to write huge chunks of it. My favorite line is "storing energy thermo-dynamically" or in the same way as any other heating system then, and why have you put a hyphen in the word!
My main challenge with the concept is that it requires a cultural shift in how you think about what a house/home should be, and cultural shifts are really difficult. I loved the earlier info on Japan but i would never be able to persuade my family to live like that, nor do I think I would want to.
The concept is I think somewhat unique and has some merits, however the website does them no favors as it stinks of snake-oil, i expect they used ChatGPT or similar to write huge chunks of it. My favorite line is "storing energy thermo-dynamically" or in the same way as any other heating system then, and why have you put a hyphen in the word!
My main challenge with the concept is that it requires a cultural shift in how you think about what a house/home should be, and cultural shifts are really difficult. I loved the earlier info on Japan but i would never be able to persuade my family to live like that, nor do I think I would want to.
Jacob
New Luddism. Wake up and resist.
Well actually there is a bit of truth in their claims (and a big lie!)
In fact a small fan heater does warm you yourself very quickly if you stand in front of it, but doesn't heat the whole room.
Quite handy in certain circumstances. Works well in our long narrow kitchen on a freezing morning - fan heater around the ankles is instantly comfortable. The CH would take half an hour to even be noticeable.
How the heat is delivered is a big part of it.
Nextgen is just another way of delivering it - large ceiling area at low temp. Not an original idea just a variation.
John Brown
Freeloading Social media influenza
Yes, Jacob, I'm aware of that, but there is another problem with fan heaters - you instantly start to feel cold when the thermostat kicks in. There was a BBC "Sliced Bread" episode on the subject.
Stevekane
Established Member
I recently read that a microwave oven is apparantly the most efficient way of heating up things,,I wonder if anyone has tried making a microwave powered boiler,,,could it work?
I have spent a lot of time recently with my dad looking at heating systems and their energy efficiency and cost efficiency over time because my parents are building a new house.
When they last built a house about 10 years ago (my dad works in construction so this isn't the first time) they went all in on the air sourced heat pumps along with solar hot water (not PV). What they've learnt is that the air source heat pumps can keep a house heated but they're quite expensive to install and also expensive to keep maintained if/when something goes wrong due to the complexity (we've had an engineer out to work on the system on several occasions when it stopped working correctly). They have separate thermostats per room, but to benefit from keeping rooms at a lower temperature and heating less of the house all doors must be kept closed. Finally, insulation of the building was done to a little above building regs spec, but not much. While the heat pumps are over 100% efficient at converting electrical energy into heat, this efficiency does drop at the point in time when you need the most heat, and you do still require a fair amount of energy to be used to heat up a house. You also have to size the heat pump to cope with those peak demand days that happen a few days per year.
In the new property, rather than using heat pumps they've decided to spend the majority of the money that was to have been allocated to heating on improving the insulation. They will add some electric under floor heating wire (which is quite cheap and maintenance free) for the active part of the heating in the house with the intent to supplement this with portable heaters if needed on the coldest days of the year (e.g. sub zero outside). Despite these heat sources not benefitting from the potential for over 100% energy efficiency of an air source heat pump, we think that retaining the energy inside the house for longer using better insulation instead of the heat pump will result in overall lower energy input to the house to maintain a specific temperature. The best part is that the insulation should continue to have this positive impact without running costs or maintenance for many years to come. We've done the calculations and they show we'll only need a 1-200 watts of heating per room.
While this is an initially a fairly expensive proposition as insulation to these levels is more difficult and expensive than is required by building regs we think that this decision will pay for itself over the course of a few years, especially if energy prices continue to be as high as they are right now (or even rise).
We will also couple the above system with solar PV with battery storage, which will likely cover any heating (or cooling) energy requirements, with any surplus generated going to charge vehicles and then to the grid.
I myself have a couple of the far infrared heaters in my own place, and I do rather like them, I can't speak to their efficiency though. I have one (500w mirror) in my little bathroom and it does a great job of warming the whole room when I need it, it's probably quite oversized for my small bathroom (2.5 x 1.8m) but that just means it warms it up quick. The other I have is a portable 800w tower infrared heater. My own place is pretty poorly insulated, so I use it to just heat up me and the area where I am, it does that very quickly, you do feel the cold after you turn it off though.
When they last built a house about 10 years ago (my dad works in construction so this isn't the first time) they went all in on the air sourced heat pumps along with solar hot water (not PV). What they've learnt is that the air source heat pumps can keep a house heated but they're quite expensive to install and also expensive to keep maintained if/when something goes wrong due to the complexity (we've had an engineer out to work on the system on several occasions when it stopped working correctly). They have separate thermostats per room, but to benefit from keeping rooms at a lower temperature and heating less of the house all doors must be kept closed. Finally, insulation of the building was done to a little above building regs spec, but not much. While the heat pumps are over 100% efficient at converting electrical energy into heat, this efficiency does drop at the point in time when you need the most heat, and you do still require a fair amount of energy to be used to heat up a house. You also have to size the heat pump to cope with those peak demand days that happen a few days per year.
In the new property, rather than using heat pumps they've decided to spend the majority of the money that was to have been allocated to heating on improving the insulation. They will add some electric under floor heating wire (which is quite cheap and maintenance free) for the active part of the heating in the house with the intent to supplement this with portable heaters if needed on the coldest days of the year (e.g. sub zero outside). Despite these heat sources not benefitting from the potential for over 100% energy efficiency of an air source heat pump, we think that retaining the energy inside the house for longer using better insulation instead of the heat pump will result in overall lower energy input to the house to maintain a specific temperature. The best part is that the insulation should continue to have this positive impact without running costs or maintenance for many years to come. We've done the calculations and they show we'll only need a 1-200 watts of heating per room.
While this is an initially a fairly expensive proposition as insulation to these levels is more difficult and expensive than is required by building regs we think that this decision will pay for itself over the course of a few years, especially if energy prices continue to be as high as they are right now (or even rise).
We will also couple the above system with solar PV with battery storage, which will likely cover any heating (or cooling) energy requirements, with any surplus generated going to charge vehicles and then to the grid.
I myself have a couple of the far infrared heaters in my own place, and I do rather like them, I can't speak to their efficiency though. I have one (500w mirror) in my little bathroom and it does a great job of warming the whole room when I need it, it's probably quite oversized for my small bathroom (2.5 x 1.8m) but that just means it warms it up quick. The other I have is a portable 800w tower infrared heater. My own place is pretty poorly insulated, so I use it to just heat up me and the area where I am, it does that very quickly, you do feel the cold after you turn it off though.
Jacob
New Luddism. Wake up and resist.
Interesting.
Had to look up "Far infrared" https://www.scottishenergysaving.co.uk/whats-the-difference-between-near-mid-and-far-infrared-heat/ . Turns out it means further along the spectrum from visible light than "near" or "mid" infrared! News to me!
Apparently it is very relevant in terms of heating the body, in other words it's about the effectiveness of delivery.
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