Why are my squares not square?!

[woodenstx]

Now it could be me buying "cheap" squares, but after one or two jobs/taslks my squares seem to go way out.

I started out with a pair of solid metal tri squares from Toolstation, yes cheap silverlines, but they were true based on a straight edge and flipping it over to check the lines. They went out after about month.
Then got a nice enough wood trisquare, same thing happened.
Then I got a Bahco engineer square (and a little one too). This was square for my shooting board but it is no longer square

The most accurate sqaure I now have is a poxy Bahco 7TPI panel saw :lol:

The edges being tested on are most definitely straight and true (cut with a plunge saw and checked with several known straight edges)
What the heck is going on?
They are stored flat indoors at circa 19Deg C, nothing on them, never pulled by either extremity etc

 

[jim_hanna]

Anything with a wood stock can move depending on humidity. I've never had an all-metal square change except if I've dropped it or otherwise abused it.

Are you using a marking knife against the edge of the square?

Regards

Jim

 

[woodenstx]

Npoe, just a good "old" fashioned 0.5mm Mechanical pencil

 

[Dee J]

Never had a square go out of square ever. I can just see that a wood stocked square move (but my 50+ year old one never has). As for an all metal engineers square that seems remarkable. Have you managed to work out the location of the slack/wear/distortion causing this? How far out are they moving?

 

[ED65]

Then I got a Bahco engineer square (and a little one too). This was square for my shooting board but it is no longer square

This is the part that really has me confused. Engineers' squares are not only much more reliably square in the first place (don't get me started on try squares that aren't!) but they're much better at staying that way. If it is indeed unsquare now then it must have had a knock or something because there's no other way they can go off, excluding wear of course but it takes a lot of that usually over a long time to have an impact.

 

[Beau]

Same as ED65. Not surprised on you first two but an engineers square should remain accurate unless subject to a heavy knock. In 25 years only had one square become less than it's name and that was due to being dropped on a concrete floor.

 

[John15]

Cheap squares are a waste of money. Much better going for a decent engineer's square.
https://www.workshopheaven.com/kinex-di ... 50-x-100mm.
htmlhttps://woodworkersworkshop.co.uk/p ... -6in-boxed.

John

 

[woodenstx]

oops my bad, Bahco Combination square.. but even so

 

[ED65]

Well combination squares are subject to wear in normal use that can lead them to becoming out of square, but still it does usually take a bit. I think Paul Sellers mentions his is 40 years old or something!

Are you by any chance in the habit of taking the rule out to use separately?

 

[AJB Temple]

I recently bought a Starrett combi to replace my old unbranded one that had got really worm and unreadable combination square. Excellent tool. I wish I had invested in the Starrett (or Moore & Wright) quality years ago. Tough as old boots and dead on accurate.

 

[adidat]

yes the Starrett is great! use it daily!

Adidat

 

[shed9]

I've had quite a few new combination squares turn up out-of-square in recent years, even decent ones. These days I use a Trend M3 purely because it's re-settable. As a plus the built in bevel gauge allows it to sit on the work piece unaided.

That said, I still have a few engineers squares kicking around but again, I've had a few duds.

 

[Beau]

I've had quite a few new squares turn up out-of-square in recent years, even decent ones. These days I use a Trend M3 purely because it's re-settable. As a plus the built in bevel gauge allows it to sit on the work piece unaided.

Don't think its a new thing. Did my training 27 years ago and the advise then was go to the shop (Axminster even then) pick up a reference square and check the square you plan to buy. All the non engineering ones I tested were off. Even bought one of Axminster's own brand "engineers" squares a few years ago had to send it back as it was all over the shop. To their credit they did me a great deal on 12" Moore and Wright.

 

[shed9]

Don't think its a new thing.

I did wonder if I'd just been lucky, although I can't say I remember that many problems from work colleagues either.


Out of interest, does anyone have any experience of the Starrett K53 carpenter squares?

 

[novocaine]

how are you checking it for square?

also, buy a framing square, these can be adjusted with a centre punch and a hammer.
combination square can be adjusted to square using a jewellers file.
engineers square needs to be reground for adjustment (can be done by hand)
tri square can be forceable adjusted then set with a punch or as PS does here with a regrind. https://paulsellers.com/2012/08/fixing-old-tri-squares/

other than a tri square, none are likely to move from square by themselves, if they are, then you need to look at how you are storing them.

even a starrett will go out square if treated badly, it doesn't matter who makes it, check it's grade before you buy it.

 

[gmgmgm]

how are you checking it for square?

I think this is key.

Everyone has their own methods for checking square, but for almost all of your squares to be out, it's possible the measuring is causing a problem.

My favoured method is to (on a known straight-edged board e.g. MDF), draw a vertical line. Then flip the square over and draw another vertical line next to it. They should be perfectly parallel. Also try it with a piece of fresh MDF from the shop, just in case the track saw is causing problems.

 

[MusicMan]

The following thread shows how to construct a very accurate jig for checking/setting a square.

high-accuracy-square-setting-jig-t93871.html?hilit=%20square

Keith

 

[transatlantic]

how are you checking it for square?

I think this is key.

Everyone has their own methods for checking square, but for almost all of your squares to be out, it's possible the measuring is causing a problem.

My favoured method is to (on a known straight-edged board e.g. MDF), draw a vertical line. Then flip the square over and draw another vertical line next to it. They should be perfectly parallel. Also try it with a piece of fresh MDF from the shop, just in case the track saw is causing problems.

I find the drawing the line trick can be off as it's too easy to accidently adjust the angle of the pen/pencil to the board which has quite a large impact on the result. Instead, I use another straight edge as the marker

 

[ED65]

I've had quite a few new combination squares turn up out-of-square in recent years, even decent ones. These days I use a Trend M3 purely because it's re-settable.

Not to take anything away from the Trend but as already mentioned in a post above any combination square can be re-squared.

 

[shed9]

I've had quite a few new combination squares turn up out-of-square in recent years, even decent ones. These days I use a Trend M3 purely because it's re-settable.

Not to take anything away from the Trend but as already mentioned in a post above any combination square can be re-squared.

I appreciate that but the M3 is a try square with a re settable blade, apologies that wasn't clear in my post.