Who is in and who is out?

[RobinBHM]

Well I voted out, the missus voted in

 

[Terry - Somerset]

Aaahh ... so the cost of keeping 750 trucks on the road perpetually is insignificant? no wonder you're supporting in.
I look forward to someone saying sometime in the future - well, we've got to keep them going , it's history and tradition.
That has to be be the most ridiculous comment in 66 pages.

The estimated annual cost of this stupidity is estimated at Euro150-200m - £100-150m.

Even at the higher figure it represents approx 33p per person in the EU. I utterly defend the fact it is trivial, but happily concede it is foolish.

Terry

 

[Jacob]

Aaahh ... so the cost of keeping 750 trucks on the road perpetually is insignificant? no wonder you're supporting in.
I look forward to someone saying sometime in the future - well, we've got to keep them going , it's history and tradition.
That has to be be the most ridiculous comment in 66 pages.

It's not perpetual and it's not that significant - if you bother to do a bit of research you will see why.

One of the maddest and most frequently expressed Brexit argument is that the EU is potentially totalitarian, in the manner of the 3rd Reich, or Russian/Chinese communism etc.
What these movements had in common was the massive forced movement of people - to gas chamber, concentration camp, Gulag Archipelago, back to the land for a "cultural revolution", out of one territory where they were seen as unwelcome, unentitled, and so on.
Resulting in millions of deaths.

A key feature of the EU is free movement of people, which is as far away from these forms of totalitarianism as you can possibly get.

Personally I think the free movement of people is the most interesting and radical detail of the treaty and has huge potential for constructive change and future development which we can't yet imagine. Democracy on the hoof.
No wonder the right are so upset about this! I just hope they don't win the vote and set civilisation back in its tracks for another generation or longer.

 

[Random Orbital Bob]

For once I agree 100% with you Jacob. A sophisticated and progressive argument...what the hell have you been smoking??

 

[Inoffthered]

A key feature of the EU is free movement of people, which is as far away from these forms of totalitarianism as you can possibly get.

Personally I think the free movement of people is the most interesting and radical detail of the treaty and has huge potential for constructive change and future development which we can't yet imagine. Democracy on the hoof.
No wonder the right are so upset about this! I just hope they don't win the vote and set civilisation back in its tracks for another generation or longer.

Thats one way of looking at it. Another way would be that the unelected Eurocrats are applying the Coudenhoven-Karlegi plan. (Google it).

 

[Jacob]

Have just returned from cross Britain cycle trip (Whitehaven to Tynemouth, back via Keilder Water, Carlisle. Asking people if in or out. Outers a very angry lot. A BB owner was particularly enraged about having to put metal waste bins in his rooms, rather than plastic - due to the risk from smoker's fag ends. This seems to be the level of Brexit argument on the whole.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

Really??? Hotels had to use metal bins before the EU existed.

 

[Jake]

We did. Four million of us got an MP.

You need to congregate in Kipper-ghettos.

 

[Jacob]

Really??? Hotels had to use metal bins before the EU existed.

Well exactly. That is my point. The sheer nonsense of the Brexit indignation.

In fact fire regs date back to the Anglo Saxon era, but took off in a big way after the fire of London (1666) with party wall specifications etc.

Another cafe owner was extremely angry and vocal for Brexit - being particularly worried about young Syrian immigrants - "they all have mobile phone you know!!". This was close to Hadrians wall - northern edge of the Roman empire at the same time as Syria was the southern edge. I bet they were wittering insanely about Syrians 2000 years ago!

 

[custard]

I voted remain.

I'm not wild about my choice, most significantly because the Euro is a misguided mess and no-one in Brussels appears to have learnt from their mistakes, condemning a generation of Greeks, Italians, Portuguese, Spanish, and now Finns to crippling youth unemployment.

Big decisions are seldom straightforward, and generally require some element of holding your nose while you do what you think is right. If Britain was part of the Euro zone I'd have definitely voted to leave, but thankfully we're not so I voted remain.

 

[Rhossydd]

For once I agree 100% with you Jacob. A sophisticated and progressive argument...what the hell have you been smoking??

Not 'for once' almost all of Jacob's contributions here have been well reasoned, intelligent and articulate. It's just a huge shame that more people in the UK don't share such a well meaning social conscience.

 

[Inoffthered]

You need to congregate in Kipper-ghettos.

And you paint the Leave campaign as the nasty campaign!

 

[Flynnwood]

Question to mods: Are conversations of a political nature allowed on this forum now Ad infinitum?

Or is this EU discussion an exception?

Just asking ...

 

[Rhossydd]

Question to mods: Are conversations of a political nature allowed on this forum now Ad infinitum?
Or is this EU discussion an exception?

Strictly speaking this isn't a political issue as such.
As it's such a hugely important subject for the UK. The mods have done exactly the correct thing to allow it to run whilst it's been informative and generally well tempered.

 

[RogerS]

Really??? Hotels had to use metal bins before the EU existed.

Well exactly. That is my point. The sheer nonsense of the Brexit indignation.

In fact fire regs date back to the Anglo Saxon era, but took off in a big way after the fire of London (1666) with party wall specifications etc.

Another cafe owner was extremely angry and vocal for Brexit - being particularly worried about young Syrian immigrants - "they all have mobile phone you know!!". This was close to Hadrians wall - northern edge of the Roman empire at the same time as Syria was the southern edge. I bet they were wittering insanely about Syrians 2000 years ago!

Ah, Jacob...welcome back. We've missed your pithy, expert opinion.

 

[RogerS]

For once I agree 100% with you Jacob. A sophisticated and progressive argument...what the hell have you been smoking??

Not 'for once' almost all of Jacob's contributions here have been well reasoned, intelligent and articulate. It's just a huge shame that more people in the UK don't share such a well meaning social conscience.

Please...pass me the sick bucket.

 

[Jake]

You need to congregate in Kipper-ghettos.

And you paint the Leave campaign as the nasty campaign!

You are sensitive soul aren't you. Just a joke about being too geographically dispersed to succeed in our FPTP electoral system.

 

[Random Orbital Bob]

Question to mods: Are conversations of a political nature allowed on this forum now Ad infinitum?

Or is this EU discussion an exception?

Just asking ...

The rationale behind the generic banning of religious/political discussion is that it nearly always leads to argument which quickly degenerates to personal insults and turns into an ugly mess as folks get terribly hot under the collar defending their impossible to prove belief systems.

So, to answer the question, no this isn't now "open season" on political discussion. This particular topic is however of such spectacular importance that as long as it didn't descend into a divisive trumping match it was felt it should be a special case. I notice Roger is doing his level best to bait Jacob with the comment about sick buckets, even then, it remains civil. But by and large, it has remained civil and has been interesting. I confess I'm surprised that we pulled it off but there y' go.

It's all down to counting now.....

 

[Jake]

This looks like an out vote to me.

 

[stuartpaul]

And the arrse falls out of the pound and the SNP are bumping their gums about another 'independence' vote.

I believe the fan is going to be really busy with the levels of sh1te that are about to hit it!