What is wrong with tradesmen?

[Spectric]

Thirty minutes sounds great, round here it is a race to get onto the queue and then just hope that there are still appointments available when you get through. Then you find out that most will be phone appointments to assess if you need a real face to face one. After all this you might end up with a referral but this will not happen until next year if you have a really good fairy godmother or guardian angel looking after you otherwise it is easier to spot unicorns on the fells.

 

[Bingy man]

It is strange how people complain about the hours trades people keep. Society has moved on from 30+ years ago - a family where only one parent works is now a very small minority so it's not surprising that trades people also have to juggle child care responsibilities and plan their day around it. If they or someone in their family needs an appointment arranging with the GP etc then these days that takes 30 minutes of redialling on the phone just to sort it.

As long as you find someone good, I'm not too fussed about the hours they keep. And good people don't want to make a job take a long time - they're organised, get it done and explain reasons for delays along the way.

It is amazing how many full time professionals now enjoy flexible working, work from home etc. and have no problem doing the school run, taking time out for appointments (GP, dentist, opticians) but seem to think trades people don't need to do that and should magically be at their house by 8am everyday and not leave until 5pm.

I had an electrician turn up to quote for an EV charger + my workshop on Saturday. He asked if he could come at 7.30am as he wanted to then spend the rest of the day with his family which is fine with me as I'm up 6.30 most days. Young(er) guy like me and enjoys communicating via text - suits me fine. He had some kind of quote app on his phone and everything went on as a line item, took photos - straight into the app, e-mail provided and quote will come through on Monday. Even told me his calendar / availability and said he only had 1 spot left before Christmas.

Gives so much more confidence than the guys who turn up and write stuff down on a scrap of paper and then just phone you with a number and mention offhand about a cash price and saving money... hmm!

So anyway, have some more sympathy for the trades, the cost of living and their personal lives and just pay more for the good ones (I appreciate there are still plenty of bad ones who try to charge high prices as well, so you have to filter them out) - my wife & I already agreed this electrician will be getting the work without any other quotes

This is how a lot of trades are now operating , it’s how we did quotes at b.gas . Everything is added to the quote as a pack eg 1200 x600 double rad ,, trv and lock shield ,, 12 mtrs of 15mm pipe ,, 6 hrs of labour etc . If the customer agreed the cost you could then book the job to yourself or a preferred engineer. The system then offered a date and time slot for the customer to agree or decline and it would repeat the process until a date was agreed . It’s suits some tradesmen and customers but falls flat on its face when the intended engineer is off sick or is delayed on a more urgent job . I prefer to put mine in my phone diary and set reminders and also in the old type paper diary . As for hours on the job it’s up to the customer and yourself ( myself ) i deliver my moms papers to the care home everyday so impossible for me to be on site at 8 pm however if it’s fine with the customer I’ll work till 8 pm or beyond . 9 till 5 is pointless with all the commitments we have -appointments school runs and especially doctors and dentist appointments which are extremely rare and certainly not to be turned down at any cost ..

 

[Samkilby]

Obviously it shouldn’t be the case in an ideal world, but you have to accept that often homeowners and a few days work here and there don’t represent the largest client, and bread and butter

 

[graduate_owner]

Slightly off topic but getting someone to contact you after they have promised to do so is not just an issue with tradesmen. We recently tried to change our internet provider - I need not go into the details of the number of people we spoke to who would 'get back to us'. You can guess the rest.

K

 

[Phil Pascoe]

Try contacting any courier company.

 

[Jester129]

You can't, there's never a phone number publicised on their websites, it's a nightmare.

 

[Kayen]

My experience is thus. All tradesmen, since covid it seems (maybe brexit), charge far too much labour rate, even given the time they must allow for site visit and quoting. Many of them are arrogant and untidy and again, since covid, many, many of them are obviously untrained idiots from other professions thinking that they can do the job. You can do the job with modern expensive tools but you cannot do the job without the depth of knowledge. Apprenticeship is essential. Time served is non negotiable. So if you have loads of money you inherited or, earned, from your fancy IT job a few years back and now think you can buy your way into our homes, then think again! If you write up here explaining how good or hard done by you are then I am looking forward to the day of reckoning.....and.... It will come!! Zaniya.

ALL tradesman? How much is too much?

 

[paulrbarnard]

Where, pray, is this magical entity?

They exist but are hard to find. I got a builder in to do a bathroom at my daughter’s house, I’m too old to be carrying baths about, and they were great at communicating m, all through text though. The boss man went on holiday, he told me he was going and his second in command would look after us. A day or two later the guy on site (also very good by the way) managed to fit the toilet in the wrong place. He must have had a brain fart as it was so close to the wall you couldn’t sit on it. I texted the second in command who got back to me in minutes very closely followed by the boss man on holiday in Spain ensuring me it would be put right the next day, and it was.

Now re roofing my workshop roof was a different story…. I finished up doing it myself. Simply could not find anyone willing to do the work.

 

[Kayen]

Mediocre "builders" around here (probably still the poorest area in the Country) think themselves hard done by if they're only getting £25 an hour.

£25 per hour as a self-employed person is equivalent to less than the minimum wage - you can only work 30 hours per week as a self-employed person because you have other duties to perform (accountancy, sales, marketing, quoting, estimating, ordering etc.) Minus overheads (workshop, storage, vehicle, fuel, tools, equipment etc). Minus 4 weeks holiday brings the total to probably far less than minimum wage. I think we have just learnt why they're not returning your messages

 

[paulrbarnard]

£25 per hour as a self-employed person is equivalent to less than the minimum wage - you can only work 30 hours per week as a self-employed person because you have other duties to perform (accountancy, sales, marketing, quoting, estimating, ordering etc.) Minus overheads (workshop, storage, vehicle, fuel, tools, equipment etc). Minus 4 weeks holiday brings the total to probably far less than minimum wage. I think we have just learnt why they're not returning your messages

30 hour week, 4 weeks holiday. Expectations have changed since I was self employed. All those extra jobs you list were extra curricular for me. In fact a 40 hour week is just a pipe dream for me as an employee…

 

[Kayen]

30 hour week, 4 weeks holiday. Expectations have changed since I was self employed. All those extra jobs you list were extra curricular for me. In fact a 40 hour week is just a pipe dream for me as an employee…

Imagine telling an employee that they have to spend their evening or weekend doing the accounts or quoting for a job unpaid, or shouldn't take any paid holidays - why wouldn't you give yourself at least equal employment terms to those you would have to give to others?

Why are the self-employed so looked down upon that they shouldn't expect any more than minimum wage?

The people I work for are probably earning thousands of pounds per day - a reasonable wage isn't too much to expect, surely.

 

[paulrbarnard]

Imagine telling an employee that they have to spend their evening or weekend doing the accounts or quoting for a job unpaid, or shouldn't take any paid holidays - why wouldn't you give yourself at least equal employment terms to those you would have to give to others?

Why are the self-employed so looked down upon that they shouldn't expect any more than minimum wage?

The people I work for are probably earning thousands of pounds per day - a reasonable wage isn't too much to expect, surely.

That’s the point. A lot of jobs involve a lot of extra input outside of the working day, be it prep by teachers, commuting by bankers or in my case working with colleagues in very different time zones. It’s what you have to do to get the job done.
I’m not arguing about £25 not being enough, it isn’t, only that the expecting of only working ‘office hours’ as a self employed person is a big expectation.

 

[Tris]

Billable hours are certainly fewer than worked hours, and if you run a van, get proper insurance cover, pay in to a pension etc £25 an hour isn't going far.

At least now I'm employed it's easier than the family business in the pub trade, 6.30am-2.30 then 6pm til midnight, 7 days a week.

 

[Kayen]

That’s the point. A lot of jobs involve a lot of extra input outside of the working day, be it prep by teachers, commuting by bankers or in my case working with colleagues in very different time zones. It’s what you have to do to get the job done.
I’m not arguing about £25 not being enough, it isn’t, only that the expecting of only working ‘office hours’ as a self employed person is a big expectation.

I don't see any difference between being self-employed and running a company. When you buy something from Tesco, the price is calculated to cover every single operating cost, from the guy sweeping the floor to the cost of the SEO's jolly - no one's working for free. I'm sure working outside of normal hours and teacher's prep is all factored into their salary, as it should be with everyone, including the self-employed.

Commuting/traveling to and from work is something everyone has to do. I would say most tradesmen don't treat their job as a business, hence the unanswered calls and emails in the original post - you either pay for the job and the service or you choose to pay peanuts and employ monkeys. I also realise that some charge a lot and still offer a rubbish service - picking the right tradesman is also a skill.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

Billable hours are certainly fewer than worked hours, and if you run a van, get proper insurance cover, pay in to a pension etc £25 an hour isn't going far.

At least now I'm employed it's easier than the family business in the pub trade, 6.30am-2.30 then 6pm til midnight, 7 days a week.

So you're not going to have an easy life taking on a nice little country pub in your retirement, then?

It always amused me that people actually believed they could do that.

 

[Tris]

So you're not going to have an easy life taking on a nice little country pub in your retirement, then?

It always amused me that people actually believed they could do that.

'I'll pull a few pints whilst the wife does some lunches, how hard can it be?'
Yep, seen plenty of those