Vice install on new bench

[Jon.1976]

Hi guys
A long time ago, I used to be a member here (on a long since forgotten email address). I've recently got back into my feeble attempt of woodworking and thought it'd be a wise idea to re register.

I recently built a bench, pretty an exact copy of Paul Sellers version but without the laminations (I used wide boards). I'm planning on fitting a record vice (just looking on ebay). Before I start drilling/cutting into the apron, I'd like to know some opinions on how the best/neatest way of fitting it or is Pauls the best/only method?

Bit more info, I copied the method Paul uses of wedging the leg frames into the apron housings but my apron is not as wide. I think Paul used four 3"x2" laminated, I just used one 9"x2".

Thanks

 

[paulm]

Don't know if this will help, as not familiar with the Sellers bench, but it's how I went about fitting one a while back vices-fitting-a-record-bench-vice-t25365.html?hilit=record%20vice

 

[AndyT]

You'll have to make a decision about whether you want to mount the vice with the rear jaw flush with the apron, or sticking out from it.
It's one of those fundamental questions, like whether to cut dovetails pins or tails first, which divide opinion among woodworkers.

Paul Sellers chooses to have the rear jaw in front of the apron and has justified his choice in many videos and blog posts. Although I enjoy his work and respect his ability, I have mounted my own vice properly, set back into the edge of the bench .

If I ever want a workpiece to stick out I can put a piece of scrap behind it. :lol:

As well as the excellent thread linked to by Paul, this thread has the Record diagram from Planecraft, which may be useful.

total-depth-clearance-required-for-bench-vise-t77275.html

 

[nabs]

my guess is that if we had a straw poll on this forum the most popular way to install the vice would be as per the pic in the thread Andy linked (reproduced below). As Andy says this is also the correct way

one thing to note about the diagram is the fixings used to attach the jaw linings (older models had screw threads in the front and rear jaws - 1/4'' BSW I think) but many people use coach screws, screwed in from the other side.

 

[AndyT]

one thing to note about the diagram is the fixings used to attach the jaw linings (older models had screw threads in the front and rear jaws - 1/4'' BSW I think)

Indeed, there are statements in threads on here saying 1/4" but some - including mine - are 5/16" so do check before buying.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

Mine are 5/16" iirc, in a newer square bossed one. I prefer to bolt through the top - if it ever did work loose for any reason it would be easier to tighten properly.

 

[thetyreman]

I think there are safety advantages of having it sticking out, both methods work, it's the results that you create that really matters at the end of the day, choose your weapon and commence battle!

 

[Sam_Jack]

Work a day.

The Op said (paraphrased) a long time ago – etc. Perhaps, we could help by suggesting that he try to work with both methods – just to see which suits him best. Personally, I like the vise ‘proud’ of the bench and the additional 1” each side – it suits ‘me’, my work and the bench (limited space). That said I have had some happy hours on a bench with the ‘inset’ vise set up; and, the bloke who owned it wouldn’t change it for the world. Such is ‘choice’.

IMO the best setting is for where ‘you’ are most comfortable. You actually need to be relaxed to cut ‘straight’, footing secure, light right and comfortable. Last thing you need is to be ‘fighting’ the saw, chisel or plane for ‘position’. Most of the good wood-workers on forum have their stands set up as pleases them best. They are comfortable in the workshop; most things pretty much where and how they like best. This provides that much needed relaxed confidence which produces ‘good work’.

My Grand Papa was a Southpaw – so the vise was, naturally at the wrong end of the bench. I just got so used to using it, that (to my shame) both my benches have the vises fitted to my right, rather than to my left (ala Sellars). It works for me – I’m comfortable with it, so I can relax and cut straight. It may be ‘odd’; but I don’t cut, plane or chisel too many wrongun’s. Well not so far at least.

 

[nabs]

fair point and tongue in cheek comments aside it really is down to personal preference.

Having said that it is worth pointing out that if you start off with the rear jaw installed behind the front apron it is very straight forward to adapt it in order to experiment with a sticky-out version (albeit with some lost capacity) but the reverse is not true: if you start off with it the jaw mounted on the front of the apron and change your mind then you will have to refit the vice.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

^^^^^^ my theory as well.

 

[Jon.1976]

Thanks for the replies. Very useful information and much appreciated. I'll probably let the inner jaw into the apron. I'll have to keep it away from the leg frame a reasonable amount so it doesn't interfere with the wedged housing. I think theres about 4ft of space between the leg frames so I won't be constantly bumping into it.

Re: Sam_Jack, i will be mounting on the 'wrong' side :mrgreen: as I'm also left handed.

 

[Jon.1976]

Unfortunately I missed the ebay auction for the vice that was local to me. Shame as it was pretty cheap and no one else was interested, probably due to not being quick release (as far as I could see). Cant find any local ones at the mo :|

 

[Phil Pascoe]

Don't be put off by the lack of quick release - 90% or the time you use only the first two or three inches anyway, and the acme thread will spin up quicker than the buttress thread on a quick release anyway.
At least you'll know the half nut won't clog up.

 

[Jon.1976]

Thanks Phil. As you say, I'm not overly bothered about QR. If it has it, thats a bonus.
Just looking at the Veritas non QR vices at g&s timber, not sure whether to wait for a local(ish) record to pop up on ebay. Having said that, most of the ones I see sell for more than the veritas.

 

[Jacob]

I set mine with inner jaw set into front of apron (not from behind) just a few mm deep and covered it with a stuck on piece of thin ply to make it flush with the apron.
I like it this way as it loses less depth of opening and the whole of the apron acts as the inner jaw and you get more holding on some pieces. Can always drop in a spacer if I wanted to clamp away from the apron.
Yes you can manage without a QR but I find them very useful - speeds things up no end.

 

[Jon.1976]

Sounds like a good method for record install Jacob.

I need to do a bit reading but I think the veritas doesn’t have any jaws so when you fit it, the apron becomes the inner jaw. I’d lose a fair bit of opening capacity if I didn’t recess it into the back of the apron. Looks nice though.

I’ll still favouring getting a record though.

 

[nabs]

if you do decide on a QR then don't forget there were plenty of good copies made last century. Keep an eye out for copies by Parkinson, Marples, Toga, Paramo, Woden, Rededa etc - not quite as common but often cheaper than the Record equivalent.

 

[Jon.1976]

Good point nabs, thank you. I remember seeing a lot of Parkinson and rededa vices a while ago when I wasn’t specifically searching for record. Not sure why I’ve become so blinkered lately.

 

[thomashenry]

I actually don't think it matters nearly as much as you think it does before you install it. I did mine the "Paul Sellers" way and not once have I regretted it.

If you do it this way, it's easy to make the vise flush with the apron by using a spacer hook. If you install the other way, it's easy to bring the vice jaw out from the apron by using a spacer block.

So honestly, I don't think it matters a great deal.