Veritas Honing guides

[scooby]

I see the Veritas mk II honing guide mentioned a hell of a lot here. Which inspires me with confidence.
At the moment I have an Eclipse honing guide, which is ok but a few of my bevel edge chisels (mainly old footprints) are pretty short now and due to the edges being a bit thinck near the handle, they dont sit in the guide too good.

I've been thinking of getting the veritas mkII for a while but never got round to it. I've got a few watersones ranging 240 to 4000 grit so I'll be doing all sharpening tasks on stones (no grinders) so I'll need a decent guide.

Is the mkII the one to get? Is there any flaws or downsides in this guide. I've read the clamp can be a bit iffy and the chisel, etc can move? I'll be only using for chisels ranging from 1/4" to 2" and plane irons. Nothing exotic like skew chisels, etc.

I just want something that will produce square sharp edges. The main thing I'm not keen on about the eclipse is the narrow which can result in camber if I'm not careful, whereas the full width roller on the veritas looks much better.

In your opinions is it worth the £35 price?

 

[Paul Chapman]

Hi Scooby,

Alf did an excellent review of the Veritas Mk II honing guide here https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/forums/view ... hp?p=58083 which you might find helpful. Can't offer any advice myself as I use the Eclipse and the Veritas Mk I :wink:

Paul

 

[Anonymous]

Scooby, yes.

I used the eclipse until I got a Mk2 - the differnece is immense and teh veritas much easier to use

 

[scooby]

Thanks for the replies. The only reason I'm not sure about getting one is because at the moment I do all my sharpening by hand, including grinding and honing.
I just don't want to keep using the grinder and switch to a coarse waterstone. For this I will need a guide but for fine honing (and microbevels, etc) and touch up honing I do it free hand. So really all I'd use the veritas for is removing nicks and forming a new bevel. I would like to get one because of the footprint problem on my eclipse guide but not sure if I can justify the £35 + postage price.

 

[Colin C]

You could get some new chisels 8-[

I get my coat

 

[Philly]

Scooby
You don't "need" the MK II. The eclipse is all you need to produce fine edges (and your sharpening media, obviously :lol: ).
The advantage (to me) of the MK II is the "silly person proof" repeatability (i.e. you get the same angle every time you use it, without fuss) and it holds most chisels securely (registered from the back, importantly!)
Hope this helps
Philly

 

[scooby]

Scooby
You don't "need" the MK II. The eclipse is all you need to produce fine edges (and your sharpening media, obviously :lol: ).
The advantage (to me) of the MK II is the "silly person proof" repeatability (i.e. you get the same angle every time you use it, without fuss) and it holds most chisels securely (registered from the back, importantly!)
Hope this helps
Philly

Well the 'silly person proof' bit definately sounds good and I can relate to that

I've just read the online user manual and was impressed with the registration jig setup. I'll see how if I've got any spare cash at the end of the week to get one

 

[George_N]

At the moment I have an Eclipse honing guide, which is ok but a few of my bevel edge chisels (mainly old footprints) are pretty short now and due to the edges being a bit thinck near the handle, they dont sit in the guide too good.

The MkII won't work with very short chisels any better than than the Eclipse. The blade has to project a certain distance through the guide to make the 25 degree (or whatever) primary bevel angle. Once the blade has become too short the guide simply can't make the necessary angle. I have a MkII and a camber roller for plane irons and I would recommend it to anyone as a (as near as possible) foolproof way of sharpening, but it can't work miracles. Grinding and sharpening only removes metal, you either need to find a way to grow your chisels or get a new set. Seriously though, if they have been ground away that much are you not in danger of being through the tempered steel and into the softer metal, which won't hold an edge as well? Just a thought, as ever I stand to be corrected by those more knowledgable.

 

[engineer one]

scooby, i kind of agree with phil, but have been a little concerned about
the registration, the thing is any time you have two screws holding
something that is not necessarily flat, you can over tighten one
nut over the other, but if you are careful, the advantage
of the mk 11 is the ease of angle setting.

however remember that the advice for planes is a curved blade,
so i have found the cambered roller a worthwhile addition too.

i think that many people including dc say that the eclipse style is
very valuable, but you do need other items to set the angle.
the value of the veritas is that you get the angle set with the
guide.

save the pennies and go for it. :twisted:
paul :wink:

 

[MikeW]

At the moment I have an Eclipse honing guide, which is ok but a few of my bevel edge chisels (mainly old footprints) are pretty short now and due to the edges being a bit thinck near the handle, they dont sit in the guide too good.

The MkII won't work with very short chisels any better than than the Eclipse. The blade has to project a certain distance through the guide to make the 25 degree (or whatever) primary bevel angle. Once the blade has become too short the guide simply can't make the necessary angle...

The MK.II can work with fairly short tools:
Small blade honing

The Crown butt chisel is about as short a chisel as I do in it for handled tools. It is being honed at 30 degrees [iirc].

The #98 blade is shorter, but of course has no handle. It is honed at 25 degrees.

However, Scooby, what you have most likely works and you do hone mostly by hand. So I would say skip it and as Colin says, save up the pennies and eventually get new chisels--you are going to need them someday anyway.

Take care, Mike

 

[bluesman]

I'm wondering about same question. As an occasional woodworker who has never really got to grips with "proper" working practises I am trying to upgrade my tools and learn a bit more.

I have an old eclipse I bought secondhand and the problem I find is that narrow chisels aren't held securely and they tilt sideways. Also getting the exact angle is a bit hit and miss. The Veritas looks like it will be more positive and like you I don't have any grinding gear at the moment so think it is probably worth the money.

Alf has posted some good sites on my questions about planes and sharpening - you might want to have a look around some of them. There's some really helpful stuff about the whole subject. In fact my head is spinning now about what to type of stones to use - oil, water, metal plate with carborundum grit, diamond. I never had a problem till I joined this forum - I think I'll go back to giving them a quick runb on the doorstep. :lol:

 

[bugbear]

As a general point, I suspect that most people who have problems with clamping in honing guides are putting WAY too much pressure on the guide.

Pretend you're honing by hand, and let the guide ... (well) guide.

The clamping system in this:

http://www.wdynamic.com/galoots/4images ... ge_id=4279

is feeble in the extreme.

And yet I've sharpened large scrub blades (cambered), Record #77 blades (too narrow for the Eclipse) and skew rebate blades (skewed).

All without trouble from the clamping.

BugBear

 

[David C]

Bugbear,

That's my favorite roller!

Demonstrating nicely that edge squareness is perfected by forefinger force. One finger on each edge of the chisel, near the tip.

I like virtually no weight on the roller as well.

Scooby,

I think the nasty pressed steel Stanley guide works rather well with short chisels.

David Charlesworth

 

[woodbloke]

As Mr C says, a narrow roller at the front and light forefinger pressure at the tool edge is all that is needed to hone most stuff. A wide roller (Axminster do one as well which I used to use) makes it almost impossible to obtain a cambered or curved edge to a plane blade, whereas with a narrow roller this is easily achievable. I now use an Eclipse clone (Draper) which has been Mr C modied - see past issues of F&C for a 'how and whyfore'. The complicated Veritas guide looks to me like a bit of kit for sliding a little further down the slope, in reality, its not needed at all - KIS - keep it simple - works for me - Rob

 

[bugbear]

The complicated Veritas guide looks to me like a bit of kit for sliding a little further down the slope, in reality, its not needed at all - KIS - keep it simple - works for me - Rob

The wide roller on the Veritas mkII makes it excellent for tools that are too narrow to self-register with finger pressure. It also has the nifty projection guide, which saves the trouble of making your own.

http://www.wdynamic.com/galoots/4images ... ge_id=3508

Anyone who can freehand a 1/8" bevel edged chisel has my undying admiration, but I use a wide rollered guide for it.

BugBear

 

[David C]

Indeed, 1/8" chisels and even 1/16" and 3/16" are the ones where a wide roller, or training wheels come into their own.

Kell guide is interesting here, though the wheels are too small and benefit from being run on a board with a slot, to get reasonable projection and enable you to get a finger onto the blade near the tip.

David

 

[woodbloke]

Bugbear wrote:

freehand a 1/8" bevel edged

I used to do all my sharpening freehand for many years, the Eclipse guide just makes it more repeatable.
To sharpen a 1/8" chisel freehand I did it the following way, I may have read about it in a book, tho' not sure:
Place the chisel in the palm of right hand, left forefinger on top of the blade near edge, lock the forearm rigidly into the side of your body. Initially have the ground bevel resting on the stone, and then raise just a fraction to obtain the honing bevel. To hone, rock back and forth on your feet so that your whole body moves as one, not just your arms or you will alter the bevel. Take only about two or three light strokes before turning over to prepare the back in the normal way, finish the honed edge on a strop. It is a knack, but it does work...oh, and don't use a waterstone or you'll end up with a nice big groove in it.
As and ex-woodwork teacher I used to give myself about an hour or so to strip down, grind, hone and re-assemble 20 No4 Record planes so there wasn't really any time to mess about with any sort of honing jig - Rob

 

[scooby]

Just getting back to the Footprint problem with the eclipse guide. It isn't because the chisel is super short, it's because the edges are quite thick compared to my Marples, so it doesn't fit in the jig well at all. I tried with a brand new 2 cherries bevel edged chisel and that fit like rubbish too :? Plane irons fit fine but most of my chisels don't. I'm going to go for the mk II guide, it'll get plenty of use and reading up on it more, the price seems justified.

 

[MikeW]

Hi Scooby,

Another alternative which I have used on the Eclipse guides is to file the chisel holder portion wider/deeper. While this isn't a decent option for straight-sided firmers that I have, it does work on bevel-edged chisels well.

And the things are so cost effective that messing one up isn't a large cost. I think I read the DC has this or a similar modification in one of his books--could have been in this thread but I'm too lazy to look :roll:

In fact, heck, maybe I'll modify one for my firmers!

Take care, Mike

 

[David C]

Scooby,

As Mike says, the clone is only £5-50 or so and can be easily modified.

I did a modification so that temple carpenters chisels would fit, which is coming in the new, third book, or back no of F&C.

It never bothered me too much if chisels did not fit well into slots of guide. A tweak with a screwdriver holds most things firmly enough.

For example, Mortice chisels just get laid down on the bars. This would work for 3 cherries etc. It is not difficult to work out some custom projections.

Just trying to save you money...... however I suspect you have been seduced by the lure of the all singing and dancing L-V, which has had a lot of thought put into its design.............
David