Utile Quarter Sawn vs Flat Sawn for Window Construction.

[pollys13]

I was intending to use quarter sawn Utile, then RobinBHM mentioned about sufficient quantity being available. Many of you know about the economics of milling a bole, if thats the correct term....... Timber Yard Terminology
https://www.timberyard.co.uk/timber-terminology

Timber will be flat sawn rather than quarter sawn. Robbins Timber don't actually quarter saw, flat sawn. That said, there will still be several boards with vertical rising grain at various angles.
I was looking at boards with vertical rising grain, as I understood as being much more stable than flat sawn.
Due to lack of experience, perhaps I've misunderstood..... barking up the wrong tree here?
As RobinBHM, mentioned, about sufficiant quantity of timber with vertical rising grain being available.
As Utile is a hardwood,very stable , would flat sawn be stable enough instead of vertical rising grain? Or should I make certain sections of the window construction from flat sawn and some from timber with vertical rising grain? Or find a timber merchant who will supply vertical rising timber in sufficient quantity?
Robbins Timber Bristol, can only supply kiln dried. Someone said to me, should be looking for air dried as will be used outside for exterior windows? Or could I get some and leave in the shed with doors open to aclimatise it?
Uum ???

 

[RobinBHM]

Weve made thousands of windows and doors over the years and just use boards however they arrive. Ive never had any problems. I can just imagine what response I would get if I rang Timbmet and asked for 3 cubic metres of 2 1/2" × 8" boards, all 1/4 sawn

Casement window frames, and sash components are almost square, so theres nothing really to gain by choosing vertical grain. The quality of the timber is far more important than the grain orientation.

Making stable jounery is all about the selection process. You need to be able to work through your timber stock, selecting appropriate timber for each part. For example, select out the very best mild, straight grained stock for door stiles first.

If you are worried about stability then use accoya for your sashes and utile for your frames - if they are painted.....

 

[scholar]

If you are worried about stability then use accoya for your sashes and utile for your frames - if they are painted.....

I was going to suggest Accoya - why not Accoya for the frames as well?

 

[pollys13]

Weve made thousands of windows and doors over the years and just use boards however they arrive. Ive never had any problems. I can just imagine what response I would get if I rang Timbmet and asked for 3 cubic metres of 2 1/2" × 8" boards, all 1/4 sawn

Casement window frames, and sash components are almost square, so theres nothing really to gain by choosing vertical grain. The quality of the timber is far more important than the grain orientation.

Making stable jounery is all about the selection process. You need to be able to work through your timber stock, selecting appropriate timber for each part. For example, select out the very best mild, straight grained stock for door stiles first.

If you are worried about stability then use accoya for your sashes and utile for your frames - if they are painted.....

OK thanks for making clearer, won't be painted, been Googling Accoya, not mentioned in any of my timber species books, seeing it dosn't actually exist, as you know starts off as Radiata Pine, then goes through a of process of acetyation. Seems it takes a stain,finish well. From what I gather machines well.

Being trying to establish how it would compare price wise to Utile. Found this thread Dec 2013 price might have changed since then,
" Accoya is currently running at £45.00 per cubic foot + vat. So twice the price of sapele. "
What would the current comparison price be?
Cheers.

 

[pollys13]

If you are worried about stability then use accoya for your sashes and utile for your frames - if they are painted.....

I was going to suggest Accoya - why not Accoya for the frames as well?

Nice looking timber, as mentioned to Robin been Googling to find out more. Stains, finishes and machines well.
Won't be painting, if price comparable to Utile will seriously think about switching from Utile to Accoya
Cheers for input.

 

[Doug71]

Think the last Accoya I bought was £1,900 + vat per cubic metre, it keeps going up in price. The good thing is you can buy it in the sizes you need so there is little waste, unlike hardwood which is normally random widths.

It does stain well but you do need to plane quite a bit off it to get a consistent colour. The treatment really darkens the outside and leaves stick marks so you need to plane this off to get the true colour, normally about 5mm. It normally comes a few millimetres over size which helps. If anything I would say the grain is a bit boring.

Doug

 

[pollys13]

Think the last Accoya I bought was £1,900 + vat per cubic metre, it keeps going up in price. The good thing is you can buy it in the sizes you need so there is little waste, unlike hardwood which is normally random widths.

It does stain well but you do need to plane quite a bit off it to get a consistent colour. The treatment really darkens the outside and leaves stick marks so you need to plane this off to get the true colour, normally about 5mm. It normally comes a few millimetres over size which helps. If anything I would say the grain is a bit boring.

Doug

OK thanks for info and tips.

 

[RobinBHM]

I was going to suggest Accoya - why not Accoya for the frames as well?
/quote]

Although accoya is stable, its expensive as well as soft, brittle and needs stainless fixings.

We just use it for door leafs. However weve had a couple of doors that have caught the wind and split at the hinge screws, so it has its drawbacks.

 

[pollys13]

OK cheers.