True or false?

[pswallace]

Hi all, ...about 3-4 years ago I bought a new makita 18 volt drill-driver ,hammer drill, impact driver set. It came with three 2.6 amp Ni-cd batteries however lately two of the batteries won't hold a charge at all and one doesn't seem to be holding a charge as long as it used to.
I also have an old ryobi drill driver that came in a set with a torch which I bought some years back and has had quite a bit of abuse and is still running strong. I mentioned this to a friend of mine and he in turn asked his power tool supplier in the south of Ireland who said that the higher end construction tools are built to be used every day and are sort of to be expected to be used and charged every day and most of the batteries will only take between 350-400 full charges so if I'm going to only be giving a drill driver light use I should not really buy the heavy duty stuff,go for a lower spec model.
Has anyone ever heard this before?,... It's going to cost me as much to replace the three batteries as it would to buy a lower end kit.

thanks for any advice. Phil.

 

[munkypuzel]

I am in the same situation. I purchased Makita twin kit with impact driver and 2 x Li -ion batteries. They are now holding very limited charge.
Purchased in May 2008 and only been used for hobby and light DIY - quite dissapointing.

 

[carlb40]

I can sympathise, i have the 18v makita lithium ion kit and tbh the batteries just last me about a year or just over. But they do get heavy use as they get used with drills, jigsaw, circular saw, recip saw.

I think makita state the LI batteries are good for a 1000 charges, but who has time to note how many times each battery is charged? Especially with some of us having 10 batteries or more. Not sure if it pot luck with batteries as a chap i was working with till a month ago has the same kit as me, yet is still on his original batteries from 3yrs ago.

I think i read somewhere the older ni cad batteries if charged properly and well maintained last longer than these new LI batteries.

 

[Duncan A]

Regarding the 18V Makita Li-ion batteries it would seem that those bought a few years ago had a problem if not charged regularly. In brief, the internal electronics drained one cell and then refused to allow charging of the "unbalanced" battery. The newer ones have a star on them - indicating that the problem has been reduced, if not altogether removed.

See http://www.recellyourbattery.com/makita-18v for the full story.

I have no connection with the company and have never even purchased from them but was looking for replacement batteries a short while ago and came across the article. It sounds right to me because we had four BL1830's in use, all bought in 2011, and the two that receive regular use and charging are fine, but the two that sit for months between charges are dead and can't be revived.

I phoned Makita and all they said was "follow the instructions and all will be well", so o help there.

Duncan

 

[carlb40]

I came across that article aswell. Nice to see makita on the ball with customer service :lol:

 

[Phil Pascoe]

I had a problem with Makita a few years ago, and they couldn't be bothered to reply to my (perfectly polite) letters. I don't buy Makita any more.

 

[graduate_owner]

Has anyone tried the Site drills from Screwfix? They are supposed to be made by Makita - I think I read somewhere that they were obsolete models, but I don't know. Anyhow Screwfix were advertising an 18v combi drill with 3 batteries for £120, then £99, then for a limited time online for £49. I bought one for £49 - thought I can't go wrong with a quality make and 3 batteries. (I'm very wary of cheap tools now - learned my lesson)
I've used it quite a bit (DIY only) and I have no complaints, except that when driving screws the clutch seems to cut in just as soon (if not sooner) than my older 14v Makita. It's not really a complaint, but I expected a bit more driving oomph with 18 volt.

Anyone else tried them?

Also, has anyone experience of Erbauer from Screwfix? I bought a biscuit jointer from them quite a while ago and it's only OK ish. (Too cheap?) Not sure I'd buy any more Erbauer kit, unless other members' experiences change my mind.

K

 

[carlb40]

The site ones, are they the red ones? If so there was a time they were actually listed on the makita site. The ni cad/ nmh batteries are still available for the makita versions, so you still can get new batteries if needed.

There is an erbauer thread on here, started earlier today. I don't do erbauer as my tools need to be 110v for work

 

[RogerP]

I have a couple of the older Makita 18v ni-cad drills wih 1.3ah batteries. I'm always careful to charge them when they're almost flat - not before. They've been going for quite a few years and still work as well as new.

 

[graduate_owner]

Roger
you recharge just before they go flat? Is that good for the batteries then? And is allowing them to run flat bad for the battery life?


K

 

[RogerP]

If you routinely top-up charge ni-cads before they are almost exhausted they will gradually loose the maximum amperage they can hold.

 

[pswallace]

Hi, thanks for all the reply's , 'seems to be a common problem.
Regarding the erbauer question,I bought an Erbauer reciprocating saw 4-5 years ago and the thing was cr*p, it kept shedding it's blades.
Back to the battery thing ,is it best to let your batt' run completely flat before charging ?
One more thing ,has anyone tried the new range of stanley fat max drill-drivers?
Thanks Phil.

 

[Ali]

I am a shopfitter/sign installer by trade and own a couple a few makita li-ion drills. I think this is definitely the case with all Li-ion batteries, you need to charge/use them regularly otherwise the batteries get damaged. An old joiner taught me how to look after my tools and prolong their life so often spend the odd sunday cleaning them, charging them up and keeping them in good nick.

There's a lot of snobbery over power tools brands, but some of the more recent Ryobi models are very good and used by a lot of professional tradesman. Ni-Cad was a more stable technology but Li-ion has won the war with its advantages, but no system is faultless.

 

[pswallace]

...."no system is faultless" ... Well answered Ali.

 

[gasman]

Worth trying discharging the batteries completely, putting them in the freezer for 24 hours, then recharging. This is an old trick which can (not guaranteed) restore some life to old NiMH batteries. I tried it on my old Festool drill batteries and it definitely improved one of them
Mark

 

[Roughcut]

I've the same problem with a Bosch Professional 18 volt drill I bought several years ago.
Cost £280 with 2 batteries and a charger and was only used lightly for DIY use a few dozen times.
Batteries are now useless and only hold a charge for several minutes.
If I were to buy 2 new batteries for this drill it would cost £260 or more. #-o
Rendering the drill useless to me, I wouldn't consider buying secondhand batteries as I couldn't be sure how long they would last.
So I will be buying another drill but not spending more than £100 because to me it's not worth spending more if the batteries won't last.
ps. I believe someone on here posted that Panasonic were one of the better battery manufacturers to invest in.

 

[carlb40]

Where are you getting your batteries from?
Have a look on ebay, there are plenty of authorised sellers on there. You can get the batteries for at least half that price

 

[Eric The Viking]

If they're NiCds you *should* use until almost flat, then recharge. If you let them flatten completely they will die fast, especially if they're high voltage ones (18V upwards). This is because the cells aren't matched, and one cell, the weakest, will be reverse-polarised as the battery flattens completely, which will kill it very fast.

It's almost always the case that the battery fails because only one cell dies. That cell becomes a load, and inhibits the current flow and drops the output voltage too. Exactly the same thing happens in car batteries (one or two cells fail first), and I'd expect Lithium-Ion batteries and NiMH ones are the same.

Incidentally, the chemistry of Lead Acid is significantly different - you charge at constant voltage, and keep it as near to fully charged as possible. NiCd is constant current charging (likes to be stored near to flat), and the others need proper charge management (controlled current AND voltage). Putting NiMH cells on a NiCd charger will charge them, but will also kill them fast (they don't tell you that in the instructions for the chargers!).

FWIW, careful charging technique does work. I have an electric toothbrush that's in its tenth year now. I had a few that failed quickly, and dissection showed where the problems were - the seal fails on the output shaft, letting abrasive toothpaste-laden water into the casing - so keeping toothpaste out helps a lot, and I think I've been lucky with the battery too. But it's still going.

On the other hand, it's quite impractical to manage cordless tool batteries well. You have to get the job done! I do number mine though, so I try to use them in order, and get warning if one is dying early.

E.

 

[Roughcut]

Where are you getting your batteries from?
Have a look on ebay, there are plenty of authorised sellers on there. You can get the batteries for at least half that price

That price I quoted was from Screwfix Carl.
But it gets worse! Look at these 2 sellers on ebay: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BOSCH-2607335 ... 1e6d595872
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Bosch-2-607-3 ... 3f1cbce0b9

Oh my good gawd! :shock:

 

[carlb40]

Where are you getting your batteries from?
Have a look on ebay, there are plenty of authorised sellers on there. You can get the batteries for at least half that price

That price I quoted was from Screwfix Carl.
But it gets worse! Look at these 2 sellers on ebay: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BOSCH-2607335 ... 1e6d595872
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Bosch-2-607-3 ... 3f1cbce0b9

Oh my good gawd! :shock:

Screwfix :shock: No wonder on the price then lol
Think they want £140 each for my makita ones. I get them on ebay for about £65 each

What you will find with those sellers is they maybe out of stock on an item.

I have noticed it a lot lately, and one seller actually put it in writing on his listing. Basically they up the price to a stupid amount as that is easier to than end the listing, then relist once new stock has arrived.

Another option if you do not use it much? The compatable batteries? They come with a 1 year warranty.