The Future of the Woodturning Challenge
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woodfarmer
Established Member
Paul Hannaby":1n3xq3u7 said:
Castanea":1n3xq3u7 said:
I wasn't going to say anything, but then thought it might not be helpful to say nothing if I can't be nice.
I did enter once, I made a special effort and the project took me about three weeks. I know it was neither beautiful or elegant but it was a challenge to make. It was also unusual as I have not seen another use of any similar technique or design. I had hoped for a "good idea, badly done" but got no response whatsoever. This was disappointing so I haven't bothered since. I know I like styles and forms that are not fashionable as I like a bowl to have some substance to it. For me it has to be functional and usually the beauty is in the wood. A 4mm thin walled bowl may take a lot of skill to turn but I can't help wondering why not buy a plastic one from poundshop? This is of course a personal view.
Am off on holiday for about a week tomorrow, so wont be online until I return.
I'm afraid it's much the same for me. Thin walled stuff (hollow vessels :? ) more often than not (at least to me) shows the amount of practice the turner has had and maybe how good his tools are - it doesn't make the piece better. I've virtually stopped club competitions as the difference between entries too often is based on on which piece of wood is prettiest. It's rather like people saying isn't that piece of music brilliant - it's the hardest piece known to play ... or maybe - this is the ultimate reindeer recipe - tastes like excrement, but it's ever so difficult to cook ...
We lose sight of the purpose, sometimes.
We lose sight of the purpose, sometimes.
Yes sadly gone are the days of 20 plus entries every month with a prize for 1st place
Where have all the turners gone ? :?
My original reason for starting and running the challenge was to encourage everyone regardless of skill level to enter their own piece and see other work followed by assessments from alternating judges ( Both highly skilled and respected ) the judges gave their time for free and at times judging is a poison chalice , please some entrants disappoint others
The challenge gives everyone the opportunity to improve , talk through project ideas , design possibilities , technique etc
Its NOT about winning its about taking part and being part of the turning community within UK workshop
Maybe its time for change of leadership with new ideas as to challenges , This would bring in new ides and hopefully liven up the challenge again , A suggestion could be whoever wins the challenge chooses the next project subject
Maybe add a poll to see what interest there is for 2017
Members need to be encouraged to continue with this challenge
Please note the next statement is my opinion only others will have different thoughts so please don't shoot me
I was disappointed when the challenge went quarterly :? thought it could be the beginning of the end , Why as follows
31 days in most months , we all get say 4 leisure hours a day outside of work / sleep / other commitments , 31 x 4 =124 hours a month or 372 hours per quarter , Can you be short of time for say 2 / 3 hours turning your entry ?
Some light hearted banter is also good for the challenge , However without members commitment and entry its like flogging a dead horse or pushing water up hill with a broom " It won't happen "
Please make the few hours commitment and enjoy the challenge and all the fun it brings :wink:
Where have all the turners gone ? :?
My original reason for starting and running the challenge was to encourage everyone regardless of skill level to enter their own piece and see other work followed by assessments from alternating judges ( Both highly skilled and respected ) the judges gave their time for free and at times judging is a poison chalice , please some entrants disappoint others
The challenge gives everyone the opportunity to improve , talk through project ideas , design possibilities , technique etc
Its NOT about winning its about taking part and being part of the turning community within UK workshop
Maybe its time for change of leadership with new ideas as to challenges , This would bring in new ides and hopefully liven up the challenge again , A suggestion could be whoever wins the challenge chooses the next project subject
Maybe add a poll to see what interest there is for 2017
Members need to be encouraged to continue with this challenge
Please note the next statement is my opinion only others will have different thoughts so please don't shoot me
I was disappointed when the challenge went quarterly :? thought it could be the beginning of the end , Why as follows
31 days in most months , we all get say 4 leisure hours a day outside of work / sleep / other commitments , 31 x 4 =124 hours a month or 372 hours per quarter , Can you be short of time for say 2 / 3 hours turning your entry ?
Some light hearted banter is also good for the challenge , However without members commitment and entry its like flogging a dead horse or pushing water up hill with a broom " It won't happen "
Please make the few hours commitment and enjoy the challenge and all the fun it brings :wink:
Dalboy
Established Member
I know I keep saying this but when you look at the amount of people that post in the threads and then look at the amount of post there are of people's work compared to the amount on machines and giving advice. It just appears as though many would talk about it rather than make something. So if you are making something then why not push a little bit harder and do it for the competition.
I know I have not entered a few times and i did PM Graham why but he still wants me to enter all the same so I may even get into the shed.
Not only am I trying to make something for my club competition like the latest piece I showed but also trying to make things for a stall and on top of that trying to write an article for the Woodworker magazine (not the first either). Talking of which a set of plans has just dropped on the mat to build and write up
I know I have not entered a few times and i did PM Graham why but he still wants me to enter all the same so I may even get into the shed.
Not only am I trying to make something for my club competition like the latest piece I showed but also trying to make things for a stall and on top of that trying to write an article for the Woodworker magazine (not the first either). Talking of which a set of plans has just dropped on the mat to build and write up
DiscoStu
Established Member
Not wishing to upset anyone but I must confess I wasn't really aware of the challenge this year. I don't know if something changes or if I do something different but last year I seem to recall seeing the challenge regularly and looking at the results etc. This year I don't seem to have seen it.
I'm only a very early beginner on the lathe and have no training so wouldn't enter, but I did enjoy seeing who had. I would suggest a thread for each month of results and then a table of the results for the year.
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I'm only a very early beginner on the lathe and have no training so wouldn't enter, but I did enjoy seeing who had. I would suggest a thread for each month of results and then a table of the results for the year.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
DiscoStu":zqiwwgef said:
I could be wrong, but I'm sure the thread wasn't 'Pinned'. It took me ages to find it after the first day or so, once it got pushed into the cellar.
Also, a group email isn't a difficult thing to implement on a forum like this. maybe that's a good way to grab everyone's attention?
I dont have a lathe at all, so my opinion might not amount to much on this subject, but competitions with regular entrants judged by experts are usually self defeating. In a very short space of time people know that the winner will be one of a very small number of very skilled turners.
The "i know I wont win so I wont enter" syndrome has been around forever.
I have a couple of suggestions, based on other non woodworking sites that i have been a member of that might get people posting pics., which I think is mostly what this thread is about.
First, a separate headed thread for a monthly picture of whatever youve made. Forum wide, not just turning, titled to attract attention to it.
The entries to be voted on by all forum members purely on which one they like the best regardless of talent or composition. One member one vote, highest number wins, no prizes, or very small prizes. Anything that does not win can be re-entered each month.
Second, create a "show and tell" thread (you have to give americans their due when it comes to pithy titles).
No prizes, no voting, just a member puts up a pic and says "I made this". He (she) can then ask for comments and criticisms (or not).
I am on a mostly american wood forum and often post pics of my boxes there. I'm an amatuer, but am happy to show and receive comments. Last year I posted a box on that site and got about 40 replies, all of them encouraging and complimentary. I posted the very same pics here and got ONE comment, picking a fault with the joints. The fault was there, and the comment was justifiable and noted, but that shows maybe why most people here are reserved and "camera shy" when it comes to pictures.
The "i know I wont win so I wont enter" syndrome has been around forever.
I have a couple of suggestions, based on other non woodworking sites that i have been a member of that might get people posting pics., which I think is mostly what this thread is about.
First, a separate headed thread for a monthly picture of whatever youve made. Forum wide, not just turning, titled to attract attention to it.
The entries to be voted on by all forum members purely on which one they like the best regardless of talent or composition. One member one vote, highest number wins, no prizes, or very small prizes. Anything that does not win can be re-entered each month.
Second, create a "show and tell" thread (you have to give americans their due when it comes to pithy titles).
No prizes, no voting, just a member puts up a pic and says "I made this". He (she) can then ask for comments and criticisms (or not).
I am on a mostly american wood forum and often post pics of my boxes there. I'm an amatuer, but am happy to show and receive comments. Last year I posted a box on that site and got about 40 replies, all of them encouraging and complimentary. I posted the very same pics here and got ONE comment, picking a fault with the joints. The fault was there, and the comment was justifiable and noted, but that shows maybe why most people here are reserved and "camera shy" when it comes to pictures.
I actually agree with Bob.
First off,
The voting should be done by members of the forum rather than one or two experts who have pre-conceived ideas of what the ideal shape, form or finish should be, inline with how they have been taught and their experiences within the turning world. (it's like the Olympic boxing where the judges score on what they perceive of the fight rather than number of punches thrown etc).
Us amateur/beginner turners know what we like, rather than what fits within a creative 'box'. The experience and viewpoint of the voting would be much more open and varied.
I must say though that I was a little intimidated to post a picture in the last competition, for the reasons that have been mentioned before about going up against established and skilled turners, but I bit the bullet and posted anyway - even though the judge 'didn't get' what I was aiming for (that was probably my fault and in future I will share the full thought processes with a comprehensive description of the shape).
At the end of the day, I want the competition to keep going, especially as I have just bought a thing to help me with the next piercing challenge!
on a side note - the amount of work that is being shown is definitely dropping in favour of technical questions. When I joined 7/8 months ago, there were more 'look what I made' threads than there were 'what lathe should i get' or 'this bit is broken please help'. Obviously I recognise the important of the latter, just disappointing that there isn't more work being shown.
First off,
The voting should be done by members of the forum rather than one or two experts who have pre-conceived ideas of what the ideal shape, form or finish should be, inline with how they have been taught and their experiences within the turning world. (it's like the Olympic boxing where the judges score on what they perceive of the fight rather than number of punches thrown etc).
Us amateur/beginner turners know what we like, rather than what fits within a creative 'box'. The experience and viewpoint of the voting would be much more open and varied.
I must say though that I was a little intimidated to post a picture in the last competition, for the reasons that have been mentioned before about going up against established and skilled turners, but I bit the bullet and posted anyway - even though the judge 'didn't get' what I was aiming for (that was probably my fault and in future I will share the full thought processes with a comprehensive description of the shape).
At the end of the day, I want the competition to keep going, especially as I have just bought a thing to help me with the next piercing challenge!
on a side note - the amount of work that is being shown is definitely dropping in favour of technical questions. When I joined 7/8 months ago, there were more 'look what I made' threads than there were 'what lathe should i get' or 'this bit is broken please help'. Obviously I recognise the important of the latter, just disappointing that there isn't more work being shown.
CHJ
Established Member
sunnybob":3gfo3vqm said:
Personally my view is that show and tell threads that have been started in other sections have resulted in the demise of most of the project and WIP discussions. There have been some great pieces of work posted in them but in the main very little in depth discussion of how and why and due to the number of daily submissions individual posts soon drop off the page.
And because posters never bother to title their post, individual pieces submitted are virtually impossible to search for and find in retrospect.
Unfortunately any forum is only as good as the willingness of members to spend a few minutes generating input, judging by many of the posts so far it seems to me that some members are afraid of only getting criticism or perceive critique as criticism, there is a big difference.
The lack of critical appraisal, comments on proportions, or requests for information on production methods etc.can be very frustrating, seeing a post get 100+ views in 24 hrs. with no comments is rather disappointing, if more members took a little time to do so maybe it would encourage others to post their work and see the comments as constructive even if they are only the personal view of an individual.
Grahamshed
Established Member
Dolboy commented above about a PM he sent me regarding his not entering the competition because he felt he was putting people off entering.
I thought I would print most of my response here just to show my feelings about it.....
<quote>
I have to say that I really do not understand why having good turners in the challenge should put people off. Obviously a new turner is not likely to win against the likes of you, kim and Dennis but it is only by pitting yourself against better turners that you can see where you are and, hopefully, watch the gap narrow. It is not as if they have anything to fear, you cannot make a fool of yourself on the internet, nobody really knows who you are.
</quote>
I thought I would print most of my response here just to show my feelings about it.....
<quote>
I have to say that I really do not understand why having good turners in the challenge should put people off. Obviously a new turner is not likely to win against the likes of you, kim and Dennis but it is only by pitting yourself against better turners that you can see where you are and, hopefully, watch the gap narrow. It is not as if they have anything to fear, you cannot make a fool of yourself on the internet, nobody really knows who you are.
</quote>
This is not the way to go folks!
Grow a pair and post some pictures guys!
All this information, all these experienced turners willing to give their time and expertise to help you learn, understand and improve your turning and you can't join in?
... sorry if I'm a little bullish but that's the way I am.
Grow a pair and post some pictures guys!
All this information, all these experienced turners willing to give their time and expertise to help you learn, understand and improve your turning and you can't join in?
... sorry if I'm a little bullish but that's the way I am.
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