THE FOURTH OF JULY

[Spectric]

I shall be voting for the party that's best for your pension

What is good for pensions is also good for the economy and living standards, pensions hang of our financial system which is all we have left now our manufacturing has been obliterated so we want economic stability and not shockwaves like Truss inflicted that has cost many people a lot of money and which is a possibility with Starmers unknown.

What we need to sort things out is not a softly softly approach which just tries to pander to everyone whilst not sorting out anything but hardline politics that ensures we keep freedom of speech and our rights to peacefully protest whilst standing up to UK rights and not bowing to the Eu or the Usa. We need the attitude of no work no pay, you earn any money in the Uk then you pay tax with no get out clauses and long term investments rather than being shortsighted and wanting a fast buck within a year. None of this will happen because there are no politicians with the balls to get it done and they are trying to be PC.

 

[RobinBHM]

Importing more workers because yours are getting older just

A) kicks the can down the road

B) makes the eventual problem bigger

C) suppresses wages

which causes

D) poor productivity

No one can use automation if labour is cheaper.

A car wash in the UK used to be a machine. Now it's 6 Albanians with a manky rag & bucket each.

I’ve seen this “poor productivity” argument a few times.

Immigrants mostly do these jobs:
Cleaning
Hospitality work: cafes restaurants, hotels
NHS
Nursing
Care sector
Delivery drivers
Taxi driving
Farm workers

No scope for automation

Please could you say what % of immigrants jobs could be replaced with automation

I’m personally not too keen on being cared for by a robot if I visit hospital

 

[Keith Cocker]

You will never find an any party that is 100% perfect, you just have to way up the choices and you soon realise they are very bleak. It comes down to giving Sunak more time to deliver his agenda whilst keeping economic stability, take a gamble with Labour and go into the unknown but there track record with the economy is not good, the Lib Dems have been around for years and achieved nothing, the Greens are a fringe party with some good ideas but could not run the country or just go for the wildcard, Reform as it is imposible for anyone to really make a bigger mess anyway. For me I see Labour as a threat to my pension, the last thing I want is for economic collapse at the point I draw my pension but is there really any way out of the mess the UK is now in as it has been digging itself into a hole for years which cannot simply be reversed. If I could change one thing in politics it would be to ensure there was a percentage of qualified people with sound track records in various areas of business in parliament, maybe we need Jacob in there to sharpen things up.

The similarities between Reform and the German National Socialist party of the early 1930s shouldn’t be overstated but they are evident. Both made a play for people worried about their financial futures and more general feelings of uncertainty. Both have very rich self interested behind the scenes pulling the strings and making use of people’s gullibility. Both have a hard core of very nasty people with extreme views. Both have perverts and weirdos hanging on their coat tails getting off on feelings of importance. They are toxic and I would warn anyone to give them a wide berth.

 

[Terry - Somerset]

Both main parties are compromised by the existence of loons to the far left and right.

Sunaks loons are represented by the Reform party - they have no chance of forming the next government, but the potential to split the Tory vote. Perhaps they are playing a long game - expecting a Labour victory in the hope of attracting more support subsequently.

Starmer has managed to silence his loons (Momentum is one manifestation) with the carrot of actual power. They have not materially changed their views and will no doubt influence policy or disrupt government assuming a Labour victory.

IMHO both Sunak and Starmer by inclination position themselves towards the centre. However they will both be pulled by vocal more extreme elements of their parties.

The victor will be confronted by precisely the same realities - economic, international, financial etc etc - and their room for manoeuvre limited. I would expect:

• Starmer to be dragged towards a traditional left agenda- some nationalisation, social spending promises etc making some tax increases unavoidable. Smoke and mirrors will be the order of the day + assertions of their predecessors incompetence.
• In the unlikely event Sunak forms the next government, he will have to embrace some more extreme Reform policies if aspirations for reducing national insurance are ever to be met.

I am not convinced government can effectively or efficiently manage. Longstanding failures crossing several different administrations - water regulation, energy regulation, Horizon, infected blood, etc - are principally evidence of incompetence, not that the model has consistently failed.

 

[Spectric]

Perhaps the way to go is for any MP who wins a seat to have a say in government because at the end of the day they represent a group of constituents who voted for them whose wishes are ignored under the current system of winner takes all.

 

[niemeyjt]

Personally, I prefer the Swiss solution of referenda - the people get involved in the legislative program directly rather than just having to pick a party every five years based on whose list of proposed laws is least bad.

 

[RobinBHM]

but there track record with the economy is not good

Actually the evidence shows Labour have a similar track record on the economy as Conservative.

You can interpret that as “equally bad” or “equally good” as takes your fancy


It’s possible to cherry pick periods and metric all day long to suit your own team and we are all guilty of that, but the reality is both have done about the same.

Sometimes I wonder if the economy would be better if we had no governments

 

[Richard_C]

People keep mentioning Reform. Is it a party? I thought it was a private limited company 80% funded by Tice, with Farage as a shareholder. Supporters are not members, no influence on policy. So a vote for Reform is a vote to support whatever Tice decides he wants. I could be wrong, anybody?

 

[selectortone]

Starmer has managed to silence his loons

Most of them have left the party or been expelled, much to Jacob's chagrin.

 

[sploo]

What is good for pensions is also good for the economy and living standards, pensions hang of our financial system which is all we have left now our manufacturing has been obliterated so we want economic stability and not shockwaves like Truss inflicted that has cost many people a lot of money and which is a possibility with Starmers unknown.

The problem for Sunak (despite him being merely a classic Tory boy who's totally disconnected from the realities of life for the majority of the public) is that he (and the Cons) are still beholden to the loons and their shady backers (why else would he have allowed the likes of Braverman a senior position in government). I would suggest therefore that the last few years of economic chaos under the Conservatives would be a decent indictor of the future under another Sunak government (i.e. appalling damage to the economy and living standards for any normal people).

The t*rds that just won't flush (Johnson, and Truss) seem to keep floating up - supported and backed by God only knows who (most of the "think tanks" housed in Tufton Street really don't like to tell you where the money comes from).

Those foul influencers won't go away with a change of government, but it'll at least get them to scurry back under their rocks for a while. Who knows; it might even help pensions for the likes of you and me.

 

[Terry - Somerset]

The problem for Sunak (despite him being merely a classic Tory boy who's totally disconnected from the realities of life for the majority of the public)

Both Rishi and Kier come from relatively normal backgrounds - Rishi somewhat more prosperous but hardly privileged stinking rich.

They have both been very successful in their chosen careers - apparently Kier is estimated to have ~£7m. What separates them is that Rishi also married into wealth.

Knowing how the realities of life affect normal people is not a job requirement, although empathy is important.

Requirement is a capacity to build relationships with other senior leaders, effectively absorb information and briefs, develop credible plans, prioritise targets, integrity etc. Knowing the price of a pint of milk, loaf of bread or cost of childcare is irrelevant.

Classic disconnected Tory boy is may be an (unjustified) opinion - but a PM raised in poverty who can only identify with his/her origins and lacking other essential attributes is likely to make an ineffectual leader.

Like it or not, it is the wealthy who have the capital to invest in business to create jobs and wealth. Understanding that which will motivate them to do so is critical. There is inevitably a secondary issue of how the additional wealth generated is shared!

 

[Jacob]

What is good for pensions is also good for the economy and living standards,

Ditto rent controls (top of the charts), higher wages, better benefits, universal basic income, end to student loans, welfare spending....etc.
Feed money into the economic cycle where it is most needed and the economy flourishes.
Ditto where it is least needed (tax cuts for the wealthy) and economy shrinks.

pensions hang of our financial system which is all we have left now our manufacturing has been obliterated so we want economic stability and not shockwaves like Truss inflicted that has cost many people a lot of money and which is a possibility with Starmers unknown.

What we need to sort things out is not a softly softly approach which just tries to pander to everyone whilst not sorting out anything but hardline politics that ensures we keep freedom of speech and our rights to peacefully protest whilst standing up to UK rights and not bowing to the Eu or the Usa.

Cooperating as equal partner with EU is a very good idea. Being lackey to USA is a bad one.

We need the attitude of no work no pay,

We need UBM for welfare of all, working or not, so that they are secure and in a fit state to contribute to society.

you earn any money in the Uk then you pay tax with no get out clauses and long term investments rather than being shortsighted and wanting a fast buck within a year. None of this will happen because there are no politicians with the balls to get it done and they are trying to be PC.

PC? More like trying not to to annoy the mega rich and the world of finance! Starmer pulls his forelock to them every time he speaks!

 

[niemeyjt]

Jacob - do you know where Sir Keir will get his seeds for the money tree. I want some.

 

[Jacob]

Jacob - do you know where Sir Keir will get his seeds for the money tree. I want some.

Sir Keith wouldn't know he's on the other side, but it could be from the people who have it of course! Where else?
It is extremely simple and dead obvious, which is why they want to shut up anybody raising the issue, such as poor old J Corbyn! Everybody knows where the money tree really is.
https://equalitytrust.org.uk/scale-economic-inequality-uk
Kick off with top rates of income tax at say 60% which Thatcher introduced in 1979, reduced from 83%. Put it back up if necessary - say 90% as public services are now in a financial emergency situation. Rates were even higher after WW2 - things were much worse then but we still managed to produce NHS, build council houses etc
Then across the board - tax unearned income at higher rates than earned.
Inheritance tax increase, capital gains etc.
At the same time reduce indirect taxes which hit the low paid worst, control rents... etc
There's loads of dosh out there just waiting to be harvested "for the many not the few"

 

[RobinBHM]

Jacob - do you know where Sir Keir will get his seeds for the money tree. I want some.

From Corbyns allotment

 

[RobinBHM]

Sir Keith wouldn't know he's on the other side, but it could be from the people who have it of course! Where else?
It is extremely simple and dead obvious, which is why they want to shut up anybody raising the issue, such as poor old J Corbyn! Everybody knows where the money tree really is.
https://equalitytrust.org.uk/scale-economic-inequality-uk
Kick off with top rates of income tax at say 60% which Thatcher introduced in 1979, reduced from 83%. Put it back up if necessary - say 90% as public services are now in a financial emergency situation. Rates were even higher after WW2 - things were much worse then but we still managed to produce NHS, build council houses etc
Then across the board - tax unearned income at higher rates than earned.
Inheritance tax increase, capital gains etc.
At the same time reduce indirect taxes which hit the low paid worst, control rents... etc
There's loads of dosh out there just waiting to be harvested "for the many not the few"

Income tax not the solution

The problem is the wealthy are accumulating assets whilst the poor are losing assets

And a big problem is UK has flogged all its assets and is now just a renter

It’s a massive problem with no easy solution.

Sadly rent controls aren’t the answer they just reduce availability

 

[Jacob]

From Corbyns allotment

Marrows not the answer.
But a contemporary example could be;
"Paula Vennells entire net worth is currently unknown, however, reports over her salary during her time as Post Office Chief could put it in the millions. According to reports, Paula made up to £5million from her role during the Horizon IT system scandal, which destroyed many lives."
How many other CEOs and financiers pay themselves millions but are totally effin useless? All of them?

 

[Jacob]

Income tax not the solution

The problem is the wealthy are accumulating assets whilst the poor are losing assets

Spot on! The answer could be to reverse this trend.

...

Sadly rent controls aren’t the answer they just reduce availability

No they don't. Very few contemporary landlords actually build houses, they just own them. Rent controls, or if landlords all dropped dead, the properties would still be there.
We need to control the "rentier" economy whereby people extract money from their neighbours merely by owning things.

 

[Spectric]

Kick off with top rates of income tax at say 60%

Yes people who just kick a ball around for a living and earn more in a week than many in a year can easily afford to contribute to the upkeep of our essential sevices and still have plenty for themselves. Look at Mc Cartney, a proud liverpudlian and a billionare, more than enough at his age so is he helping Liverpool in any way ?

 

[PDW125]

Property in general even more severe - half of UK owned by by less than 1% of the population.

That’s not actually that much…???

UK land mass is roughly 24.4m hectares, population is around 66.97m (2022) which makes average ownership 18.2 hectares ..?

Average farm in the UK is 88 hectares .. yes, a lot of land is owned by conglomerates, insurance companies etc, but they tenant this to a lot of small farms and tbh who really wants to own 10,000Ha in the far north of Scotland ..?? It has near zero value for anything other than wild grazing or wind farms !