Table saws... Scheppach or Record?

[Charley]

Please mind your language there John :wink:

I happen to have the GW mag where Andy reviewed the Xcalibur 12in saw on my desk. The sliding carriage can handle crosscuts up to 2560mm wide (left to right) and 1000mm depth (front to back) and takes up a lot of room. Think I would even struggle in my workshop :?

Edit: just read a bit more and it says there is a bigger carriage available that accepts a full 8x4ft sheet...

 

[Woody Alan]

Hi
I do have a picture of the sliding table of the xcalibur and judging by the design and the size of the swinging arm compared to the base...apart from the fact you'd need a barn to fit it in..I wouldn't be surprised if someone said you could cut a sheet lengthways....but that is a guess based on a deduction. and no facts at all

Alan who is still debating with himself on which machine to get

 

[seaco]

Hi James

I tried the Record Power TSPP250 at the Yandles show and yes it does look sturdy and well made but I really wasn't impressed with the guide fence as it could be set and locked off true? at least 10mm off this was also the case with the SIP and in my mind the guide fence is the most important piece of a table saw?

Please don't think that 1mm off is good enough for now as this won't be the case for long I assure you, if you get a good accurate saw you will get 100% accuracy and that means making anything will be easier in the long run, because all those 1mm's add up!

My Unisaw was set up with a digital micrometre and has stayed spot on and this makes all my work much easier so I can trust my saw to be right...

 

[devonwoody]

Seaco.

Pleased to hear that the fence you described is good but what about cross cutting, is there any slop on the mitre guide?

 

[johnelliott]

There you are then, Bob, the 12 inch xcaliber has, with the standard sliding table, a travel of 1000mm. This is fine for trimming pre-cut panels but NG for crosscutting sheets which are 1220mm.
I'm surprised that they would make one that only travelled 1000mm, don't they know that 8x4(the standard in the US as well as over here) sheets need a bit more?

John

 

[seaco]

Seaco.

Pleased to hear that the fence you described is good but what about cross cutting, is there any slop on the mitre guide?

Sorry I'm not quite with you do you mean the mitre gauge that came with the saw? There's no slop in that and when I need more accuracy I have an osborne...

 

[devonwoody]

Nice to hear that gauge and guide OK,

What's an Osborne? I have heard this mentioned before.

 

[Philly]

DW
See my review here....
http://www.philsville.co.uk/osborne_eb3.htm
Cheers
Philly

 

[devonwoody]

Thank you Philly, looks interesting, does it stand up to hours of work?

Example cuting or chewing off tenon cheeks (multiple cut type work)

What is the price range of the fence?


All I need now is someone to sell me the saw to go with that piece, pm if any offers.

 

[johnb]

I've not had any problem with the fence on my Record TSPP250. It is like any set square and just needs slight forward pressure on it while locking to make sure both sides of the front are touching the front rail - that comes naturally.

The slight slack which could allow non-square locking is just to make the sliding easier. There is an adjuster so it could be tightened up if it seems too slack. The positive locking of front and back gives me more confidence and no possibility of the fence moving when cutting large heavy sheets.

 

[Philly]

DW
The Osborne is superb-I've not had to touch it since setting it up initially and it is superb for repeat cuts. A dream-worth the cash, as other users here will bear out! 8)
Philly

 

[Noel]

Here's the Osborne
http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx ... 51225&ap=1

And here's the Accumitre, my choice

http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx ... 51225&ap=1

Rgds

Noel

 

[seaco]

I've not had any problem with the fence on my Record TSPP250. It is like any set square and just needs slight forward pressure on it while locking to make sure both sides of the front are touching the front rail - that comes naturally.

The slight slack which could allow non-square locking is just to make the sliding easier. There is an adjuster so it could be tightened up if it seems too slack. The positive locking of front and back gives me more confidence and no possibility of the fence moving when cutting large heavy sheets.

Nice to hear that the saw can be set up properly, you'd have thought that at a show, a saw on display would have been set up perfectly though, but then again when I was looking for a saw I went to Yandles and tried a few and wasn't impressed so I asked and was told that they are just put together for show and never really set up properly so how are we supposed to know which are good and bad?........

 

[Anonymous]

Woody, thanks for your input, and indeed I have priced up the fine adjustment option in the Scheppach deal Incidently, D&M were more than £200 cheaper than Rutlands on the full package.

And seco, my mind has to agree, the cumulative errors mm accuracy can produce is not desirable and really if i wasn't bothered by it I would have got the record already. However I don't think it would be that hard to make up a micro adjuster really, anyone made one? And I would have to agree with John B, in that the fence on the Record just needed a touch of pressure to line it up perfect then it was solid when locked.

As for the Xcalibur suggestions, the unisaw/clone, is too big and heavy for my current needs, as well as not having 1220mm working stroke on the carriage.

Im still very confused, but thanks again for your replies

 

[Anonymous]

Hi Bob,

Starting from the top, the Record saw I reviewed was an early version with a retro fitted sliding carriage. It worked well enough, but I felt it was a little underpowered, especially on deeper ripping. Sheet materials were fine though.
It will crosscut 1220mm wide timber, essential if you work full sheets often.
The Xcalibur was actually a bigger model than I wanted to review, I was hoping to get one priced at the same area of the Jet as a close comparision, but it wasn't available, so the bigger model was sent.
The sliding carriage on this one came with a short running rail, so limited in Xcut capacity, but a longer version is available to gain full sheet width.
The Xcut fence on this model was fixed at 90degrees though, so long angled panels need a jig of some sort.
Loads of power though!
I've just tested the Scheppach TS2500ci in our latest issue, GW162 0n sale mid May...plug plug...(again!)
Although not the cheapest on the market, build quality is excellent, the cast iron makes a huge difference over the ali extrusions and pressed steel used on some of the other Scheppach machinery of old.
Bought as a kit it's great value, with side and rear extensions, plus a shorter running rail Xcut table. A longer option is available if you want full width sheet conversion.
Its the dado head that will probably gain most favour, the saw will take a 8mm-15mm shimmable set, costing about £100, but the SUVA guard is about £450, so the chances are either a home made one will be used, or totally disregarded, making it a little more fraught with danger when used.
I like the saw not only for its capacities and performance, but also the fact you can strip it back to a bare bones model in seconds and stick it in the corner if space is tight.
My main gripe was the rise and fall/tilt mechanism. Rise and fall is very sweet, but tilt is a little 'grindy' compared to others i've looked at, but still works as it should.
If I had a choice of this or the Record, it would be this one.
(Yet another condensed review before the mag is out! I must be mad :shock: )

hope this helps...
cheers,
Andy

 

[Alf]

...dado head...costing about £100, but the SUVA guard is about £450...

Grrrrrrrrrrr :evil:

Cheers, Alf

 

[Anonymous]

Ahh that's marvellous Andy, just what i needed someone with experience on both machines. So do you, like others have said, have full confidence in the fence on the Scheppach? If so I think I will have to get this puppy for the following reasons; quality company with good history and future backup, many accessories available, micro adjustable out of the box, and it folds down to allow for storage/workability options.

Thank goodness I can stop thinking about this soon and move my attention to the next purchase, thanks everybody

 

[Anonymous]

I thought the fence was very good. It doesn't lock at the back, but the extrusions used are so heavy duty it doesn't move an iota.
Might be worth checking if the fine adjuster is standard with the kit thougfh, ours came with one for the Xcut fence, but not for the rip.

cheers,
Andy

 

[Anonymous]

Thanks and yes the micro adjust on the fence is about £35 more i think.

 

[Woody Alan]

Hi Bob

I didn't really want to do this now as I was saving it for a discreet gloat later. But.. I must tell you a couple of things about the Scheppach. Firstly there is a new model variant literally hot of the the press. So hot even the importers didn't know my dealer had the first one this month (they were expected next month) . The saw now has an outfeed table included in the package, not the one with a support leg but one from pressed welded steel that latches on the back of the table (new regs or something). I went to the show and chatted to NMA and he couldn't match the price of my local dealer (who he plays golf with). I came back and ordered the 2500ci with 2.00m rail, 8-15 slot cutter,side extn, micro ripfence adjuster,table insert and nut for slot cutter for all in of £1690.

Hope that helps,what I'm saying is go haggle with your local dealer or come see mine.

Cheers Alan