There is a Polish saw blade company that makes a blade that has much wider teeth than the arbour hole size, if I remember it was up too 10mm tooth width, but then IMO a dado blade is the wrong way to go about putting a grove in a piece of wood, should be done on a router table.
Table Saw w/ability to take a dado stack.
- Thread starter Gandalfs Staff
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MichaelChou
Established Member
I just removed the wing, made a replacement with strips of beech and bit of richlight. Then devoted it in the same way the wing was secured. I drilled in to the edges for the bolt shaft then up from the bottom to give enough clearance for a spanner, the router table fence just clamps onto the table saw fence, it’s a U section of 18mm ply with sliding faces to accolade different sizes of bit.
Against_The_Grain
Established Member
An absolutely ridiculous supposition, a table router could not possibly keep up with the power and speed of a bench saw or spindle moulder equipped with groover tooling such as dado blades.
Whether it could keep up is a moot point, why would it want too. Would seem you don't know the so so little difference between a router table and a spindle moulder, and do not forget this forum is mostly for amateur woodworkers, not professionals.
Against_The_Grain
Established Member
Having been around these machines for almost 70 years, I would say there’s massive differences between a table router and a spindle moulder and the table router is largely not worth the effort for most operations anyone might encounter as it is far slower requiring multiple passes for most cuts because of the lack of power, router bits last a fraction of the time that spindle moulder tooling does, the router is a miserably loud machine, and above all else I consider it a far more dangerous machine.
The table router is a fairly new concept and I remember the “table router” mania back in the 1980s and 1990s when that’s all woodworking magazines would publish about and projects that revolves around table routers, it certainly has its place for smaller cuts, especially tight shaped work, and hobby woodworking on a budget, but that’s were the positives end.
The discussion is about a bench saw that can accommodate dado blades, my personal preference would be adjustable plate groovers but I can see the versatility of the dado blades and why someone would go down that path. There’s much one can do with dado blades in a bench saw that you would struggle to do on a table router, making trenches on carcasses is one that comes to mind, very simple, accurate, and repeatable results on the bench saw, nearly impossible on a table router. Conventional joinery is another one that is very difficult to achieve with a table router, such as a simple halving joint, where with a bench saw and a dado blade it is a dawdle, and much safer than anything you could jig up for the table router.
Whether you’re a hobbyist or not is largely irrelevant, we all want the best tool for the job and to have it done as quickly as possible as time is our most precious commodity, to waste it using a sub-par piece of equipment is a tragedy.
Perhaps the router tables you have used have been under powered, but my 2.6 HP Hitachi mounted in my router table seems to cope with anything I use it for, maybe a spindle moulder may be better for moulding, but it can't cut kitchen worktop masons mitres or sink apertures, most of us don't have the luxury of having space to turn a worktop and have to take the tool to the workpiece, the versatility of being able to take a router out of a table and use it freehand can not be denied.
Against_The_Grain
Established Member
A portable hand router is a very versatile tool and can do as you have suggested with ease, but your point wasn't about that, it was that "IMO a dado blade is the wrong way to go about putting a grove in a piece of wood, should be done on a router table".
My point is that a table router is an ineffective tool that has been heavily pushed by router and bit companies over the last 30 years in an effort to sell router bits. You won't find an industrial-level table router because there is little use for one in industry, however you will find overhead routers which are far more versatile and powerful with most being four-horsepower and up with a high torque induction motor, as opposed to a low torque brushed motor as you find in portable routers. The first "portable" router I used in the 1950s was a three-phase one which I cannot remember the brand, it was a dreadfully heavy thing as it was essentially a full-sized induction motor on top of a frame, it was only ever used for trenching across wide boards that you could not do any other way, portable routers have come on a long way since then but I would say that the best thing they developed was the plunge slides.
In relation to your first supposition, if you wanted to do a 3/4" wide and 3/4" deep groove along a 2" by 1" batten repetitiously, the table router simply would not be able to do it in a reasonable amount of time, and if you tried to do it in a single pass you would likely burn out the router in short order, however the bench saw with a dado blade fitted would be quite happy putting these through all day with little effect on the blades. It's all relative to what you want to do with the machine, and what @Gandalfs Staff wants to do with it seems to be producing trenches or "dados" in carcass work, which is very difficult to do on a table router as he found because the bit tends to pull the workpiece around unless it's very well jigged which can be difficult on larger pieces.
Against_The_Grain
Established Member
The reason he's said "It's not a commercial setting" is because you will inevitably get people saying "A dado blade is illegal, etc..." when it only applies to a commercial setting and it is not illegal, only using the machine without proper guarding and braking is illegal, in a commercial setting. I've already said that whether you’re a hobbyist or not is largely irrelevant anyway.
It was an example, and it's actually a very similar cut to what you would have to do when producing the bottom meeting rail on a double-glazed sliding sash window, with the groove actually being wider than the example. Again, your first supposition of "IMO a dado blade is the wrong way to go about putting a grove in a piece of wood, should be done on a router table" is the problem, when the table router is a very inefficient tool for grooving beyond very small and shallow cuts and is the incorrect tool for passing the work over the cutter as you would with grooving a carcass as it's not a very controlled cut and hence very dangerous unless very well jigged. However, the dado blade equipped in a bench saw is very controlled for cuts which pass over it as you're cutting against the rotation of the tool, instead of across it as with a table router, with the added benefits of more power, more capacity, and an inherently safer tool and practice of work.
I have a Laguna F3 with dado stack. I also invested in a crown guard, which is a must if you want to cut Dado's on a table saw.
Cutting multiple dadoes to construct cabinets has kind of fallen out of favour now. We probably all watched too much Norm Abraham back in the 90's 
However a table saw with a dado head is still the best way to do this IMO. A router table will not give you the blade to fence dimensions needed. I just make a stiff carcass with a 6 mm rebated back and use pocket hole screws for the shelves - or Tonka strips for more upmarket work. As I previously posted it's the 5/8 " arbour which is very useful to fit other tooling like moulding heads etc.
However a table saw with a dado head is still the best way to do this IMO. A router table will not give you the blade to fence dimensions needed. I just make a stiff carcass with a 6 mm rebated back and use pocket hole screws for the shelves - or Tonka strips for more upmarket work. As I previously posted it's the 5/8 " arbour which is very useful to fit other tooling like moulding heads etc.Nick - thanks for replying. Some very basic questions to follow - anyone who has been woodworking for more than five minutes look away now.....because otherwise you will be shaking your head and going don't let this guy use power tools....Yes, Fusion 1, Fusion 2 and Fusion 3 saws all have a 5/8" diameter arbour that is approx. 31mm long (I love mixing my metric and imperial
Saw blade bore is a standard 30mm by way of a flange on the supplied washer (that has a 5/8" bore).
But any dado stack for a Fusion needs to be 5/8" bore to sit straight onto the arbor and we sell a separate washer that doesn't have the 30mm flange on it - that will secure a dado behind the existing locking nut. Dado washer code is F3#034 and about £6
So the arbor size is 5/8 = 15.875mm and the length is 31mm and you go on to say the dado stack has to have a bore of 5/8 so it sits correctly on the arbor - That all makes total sense.
On the website the specs say this ;
| Blade Diameter / Bore | 250mm (10") / 30mm |
If the arbor is 5/8 then why wouldn't you specify blade bore at 5/8 rather than 30mm?
Also, if you can, what dado stack would you 'recommend'?
Thanks
Thanks - appreciate the advice. As an inexperienced woodworker this is where my head was - passing the piece over a dado blade seems to me to be a better option than a router table. As you say it is controlled, cutting against the tool rotation rather than across it.
I know others have offered up some other machines such as a pin router etc but space is an issue. The TS with a dado seems the best option/compromise for this amateur.
That said I had no idea what a moulding cutter was until I googled it and now I want one of them as well.....
Ttrees
Iroko loco!
is there such a crown guard with a hold down function, as per the Shaw guards in Roy's old video on Youtube?
Against_The_Grain
Established Member
CMT are the most easily available here, I personally would get the solid plate ones rather than the "locked" ones which seem more of a gimmick than anything else but there's not much price difference.
https://www.scosarg.com/cmt-230-dado-saw-blade-set-d-200-z-12-d-5-8
https://www.scosarg.com/cmt-dado-set-saw-blade-hw-d-203-b-15-88-z12-ftg-at
Edited for clarity I hope:
Hi @Gandalfs Staff , we decided on 30mm blade bore with CE spec as 10" / 30mm bore blades are pretty much standard in Europe and easy to get - plus cheaper to buy vs 5/8 bore blades.
The arbor is still 5/8" though.
The 30mm bore blades sit on the supplied washer with a flange measuring 30mm. That washer is 5/8 bore though and sits on the arbor.
Sorry I can't officially recommend any dado stack, but I know others on here use one - CMT are well worth researching as already mentioned.
Cheers, Nick
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Ollie78
Established Member
30 mm bore is the same as many spindle moulders, could you in theory use a turn blade groover or fixed width groover for a spindle moulder ?
I would suggest that an adjustable groover would be better than a dado stack for finish quality and has replacable blades with 4 sides.
If people really must use the table saw for this sort of thing.
Ollie
Hi @Ollie78 - the arbor is 5/8" - the 30mm blade sits on the supplied washer with a 30mm flange that is the width of a blade. Anything wider than a blade would need to be 5/8" bore or it will not be clamped correctly - and directly mounted using a different flat washer.
Ollie78
Established Member
I see, makes sense.
Thinking a little on the subject it seems the best solution would be to use a removable spindle type arrangement for quickly switching between dado and normal blade. Like on higher end spindle moulders so you can keep stacked tooling setup all the time.
