Support the Dale Farm Travellers

[Jacob]

The country has vast swathes of land used for defence and land always seems to be found for factories, supermarkets so why cannot a few acres be found for these travellers. Also where I live in Wales it seems to be very easy to get planning consent for ugly caravan and motorhome parks etc. The fact is that nobody wants the travellers because there is no money in them and they don't quite fit into the norms of the so called settled community. Were many gypsies involved in the rioting and looting?

Absolutely.
In fact much of rural Britain has become a playground for the well off with empty farms turned into holiday lets and 2nd homes, some villages more than 75% empty most of the year, shops, pubs, schools closed, nothing in the fields except horses. Not just a Welsh problem it's everywhere.

Where Do you make all these fairy stories up, Jacob. Come on..you're always asking us to produce evidence. Now how about you?

You say 'much'. How much and where is the evidence. Where is the evidence for all these 'empty farms' turned into holiday lets and 2nd homes? Which villages are empty 75% of the year? Mmmmm? Thought not. Figments of an overly fertile (febrile ?) imagination.

Very much the case around here in Derbyshire, and anywhere else in Britain that's the slightest bit picturesque.
Empty farms are everywhere - it's really depressing coming across what was once a lively hamlet which is now all gravel drives, plastic windows, big cars, "Private" notices and no sign of life. 50% non-resident home ownership is commonplace.

 

[RogerS]

That's not evidence, Jacob. More like wishful thinking.

 

[Jacob]

Here are a few stats http://www.schofields.ltd.uk/blog/1242/ ... me-market/
That's for 2nd homes so doesn't include holiday lets (I think). It also doesn't mention hotspots e.g.there are (a few) small hamlets with 100% 2nd-home / holiday-let ownership.
There'll be a lot down your way Roger - have a look around you might be surprised. How many of your neighbours are permanently in residence?

 

[RogerS]

Here are a few stats http://www.schofields.ltd.uk/blog/1242/ ... me-market/

That's 1% of the UK households. Hardly justifies the swathes of empty properties that your post suggested. Told you it was your wishful thinking.

Holiday lets are irrelevant. Wasn't it you who was advocating holidaying in the UK? Where do you expect people to sleep? We don't all share you lust for camping and wandering down to the showers in your boxers !

I just took a look at my neighbours. All houses 100% full of real families. No farms empty either. Out of curiosity I took a little Google Streetview around a few villages in your home patch and all seemed pretty full of real people.


Wishful thinking, Jacob. You've been reading too much Guardian.

 

[Jacob]

....of curiosity I took a little Google Streetview around a few villages in your home patch and all seemed pretty full of real people......

Varies. In the High Peak there are some ghost villages , very empty. Even the residents tend to be wealthy retired. Emptyest of all are some of the big farm hamlets which once had farm house plus cottages , barns etc. Now all holiday, 2nd home, barn conversion etc.

 

[Harbo]

The decline of rural communities has nothing to do with the Gypsies but is a result of many complex factors including:
Decline of Rural Trades with increased mechanisation
Small Farmers unable to compete/survive
The increase in house prices and the lack of affordable housing
Ability to travel to work and shop further afield because of improved roads and transportation.
The growth of supermarkets – local shops cannot compete?
etc etc

What you are forgetting is that most Travellers do not want to live in houses even the ones on permanent sites.

It is not a question of empty spaces but finding them somewhere to live which is acceptable to themselves and the other people in the vicinity who will have to suffer them.
And their behaviour in the past has done nothing to help their situation.
Permanent sites need Planning Permission and obtaining that is well nigh impossible.

I think those who are looking at this issue through rose-coloured lenses should pay a Traveller's site a visit, talk to the locals who live around them and then invite them to move in next door?
I don't think so!

Rod

 

[RogerS]

So you keep saying, Jacob, and I don't doubt that there are a few...a very, very few places in the UK where this is true. However, if one was to take your post, at face value, you have stretched the definition of 75% beyond anyone's wildest dreams.

 

[newt]

Do travellers pay any form of taxation, if not why not?

 

[gnu]

They all seem to have very strong Irish accents so naturally their culture and way of life is back in Ireland so why is not the Irish government helping out and offering sites for them?

 

[worsley947]

Move them out and give them a bill for all the cleaning up that will have to be done
Only problem is they will just buy more land and start all over again
So whos going to win, I know it wont be the tax payer
But they do need somewhere to live
I dont know what the answer will be

 

[flying haggis]

Re: Support the Dale Farm Travellers



Not until hell freezes over!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Lons]

Harbo has summed it up perfectly and it's apparent from some of the other posts that "activist" tendancies have overided commonsense and logic in some cases.

I have experience of these groups of people albeit a long time ago when I was directly involved in sales of some of the vans and in particular the mobile homes I mentioned in my last post, the cost of which could easily have paid for a terrace house in many cases. I also encountered the show people at the Newcastle hoppings when in the plastics industry where 90% of my annual sales of certain coloured perspex and acrylic mirror came from during a 2 week period each year.

These people have a culture that no one will change, they see themselves as above the law, will not pay taxes of any kind and have absolutely no regard for anyone elses property outside of their own group. They are entrenched in the showground business, in the black stuff and scrap metal trades and their dealings are always cash so they remain non accountable. Bloody difficult when taking £40k off someone for a mobile home

I don't know if it ever happened but at one time, the insurance companies were highlighting certain areas with a view to loading premiums because of their presence.

Don't misunderstand me - I encountered some really nice travellers but they tended to be the old ones and even then they used to complain that the youngsters had lost the gypsy moral code.

The overiding fact despite the failings of the LA and the attempts of certain forum members to deflect the argument, is that they are indisputably breaking the law - big time - and cannot be allowed to do so under any circumstances.

As an aside, I have a small plot of land which if given planning approval would be worth a nice little sum so I'd love to be able to sell or build and retire on the proceeds - but not at the cost of the breakdown of controls which in general could result in the complete desecration of countryside and the errection of unsafe and unsightly shanty buildings.

Bob

 

[clk230]

i live 10 minutes from the site and WON'T be signing the petition , they ARE law to them selves including over the years shooting each other a friend of ours had a horse saddle stolen they found out a traveller was using it told the police they didn't want to know, theyrace thier horse and carts down the a127 using rolling road blocks i could go on but got thing to do .

the fact is they have broken the law Basildon council have let them take the case to the highest level rather than just kick them off and every court has said go.

 

[Jacob]

If there is no easy way for them to set up housing/camp etc and we define all all that they do as illegal, then they behave like outlaws. It's largely our choice, not entirely theirs. They aren't going to clear off obediently and disappear - they don't know how to, and nobody else has offered a solution.
Similarly during the riots - one mother of hoodlum said - if everybody says they are scum, don't be surprised when they all start behaving like scum.

they race their horse and carts down the a127 using rolling road blocks

I'm all for that. We should reclaim the roads! They don't belong only to motor powered vehicle owners.

 

[clk230]

they new from the day they set foot on the land that they were comiting a crime !

 

[Digit]

Jacob et al. Let me see if I have got this straight.
They are 'Traveller' but many lived there for years, seems odd.
As I understand it the council have been attempting to remove them for something like 10 years, is that correct?
They have used legal procedures to prevent their removal?
The Council have abided by the court's decisions, as have the 'Travelers'?
Now the courts have decided against the said 'Travelers'?
And the 'Travelers' are threatening force?
Is that all correct?
Strange that they only support the law when it's on their side is it not?
Would you support me in similar circumstances?

Roy.

 

[studders]

.... we define all all that they do as illegal...

Surely they commit illegal acts, not commit acts which are subsequently defined as illegal?

 

[Jacob]

...
Would you support me in similar circumstances?

Roy.

Go for it* Digit - I'm on your side!

* perhaps let me know what you are going for first, but I'm sure it'll be OK.

 

[Digit]

I'm on your side!

Now I know I'm wrong!

Roy.

 

[RogerS]

Christ, Jacob. You remind me of my 87 year old mother. She's never wrong, either. She witters and talks boll*cks incessantly as well.