Support the Dale Farm Travellers

[devonwoody]

I know what its all about.

They have a different gene to us. Its all genes these days. :roll:

 

[bugbear]

Apparently the Dale Farm Travellers are quite happy to abide by the laws of the land, like the rest of us.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-essex-14804705

If they're paid six million quid, unlike the rest of us.

BugBear

 

[Digit]

I'll move for that as well!

Roy.

 

[Lons]

The guy talks absolute junk. Another on his soap box who knows naff all. He wants water canon, tear gas for rioters, yet ALL the experts who have real experience of similar situations stated that those measures would have been completely ineffective. Yet somehow he sits there and thinks he has all the solutions.
He wants more Police and specifically more trained in Riot control. Yes. pay more taxes. If you aren't prepared to do so then don't complain about lack of Police bodies.

And your solution would be ?????

 

[barkwindjammer]

Dr Peter Shirlow, a human geographer and public order expert at Queen's University Belfast, agrees that such kit can be a very useful way of containing rioters who are scattered across wide open spaces by directing them into a specific area.

And here is one of your 'expert' quotes gleaned from google

Right then, how does that work ?, "human being magic magnetising water" ?

ROFL, what a load of Shilo Rog

 

[MIGNAL]

We can discount Mr.Livingstone and the Tory MP - unless they have any real expertise in the matter? At the time of the riots the press interviewed two former senior officers, both had long experience in riot control Northern Ireland. Water canon, tear gas can be very effective against mass crowds. The type of rioting we saw was more akin to many random groups who were separately looting/ committing violent acts. I distinctly remember one of those senior officers stating that the use of that type of riot control (under those circumstances) would more likely put Police officers in greater danger.

Don't be too quick to dismiss Livingstone as during his time as Mayor he will have faced similar problems and taken professional advice. Mercer has used the stuff and found it highly effective.

My point was that in your original post you said ALL...in capital letters....and that is certainly not the case. So far I've quoted four experts in favour and you've referred to two.

I think that makes it Roger 4 : Mignal 2 :wink:

Here you go Roger:


Sir Norman Bettison (West Yorkshire Police constable)
The violence prompted the Prime Minister to authorise the use of water cannon by police where necessary.
But Sir Norman says practice with the weapon had shown it to be slow, lumbering and “absolutely hopeless” for dealing with the “smash and grab behaviour” shown by rioters in the last week.
Rubber bullets are already part of the police’s armoury, but he believes they are more suited to keeping distance between officers and crowds than stopping looters running away from smashed shops.

Sir Hugh Orde: water cannon and baton rounds not the answer
President of the Association of Chief Police Officers Sir Hugh Orde has spoken about his reticence in using force in incidents of civil unrest. In a comment piece written for the Guardian he said: “As one of only two officers in the country to have ordered the use of water cannon and baton rounds in public-order policing, my professional judgment is it would be the wrong tactic, in the wrong circumstances at this moment.
“Both require an extremely precise situation. The use of water cannon, while logistically difficult, works against large stationary crowds throwing missiles at police or, as I witnessed in Northern Ireland, at other communities. It achieves distance between police and unlawful crowds that is often vital.
“Utilising baton rounds, an even more severe tactic, is fundamentally to protect life. When I ordered their use, again in Northern Ireland, my officers were being attacked by blast bombs and live fire. I would always use both with a heavy heart, but it is always an issue of proportionality.”


Sir Hugh Orde, the president of the Association of Chief Police Officers, said he did not think that water cannon would prove necessary because they are used to dealing with fixed crowds, not fast-moving groups.

"If the situation develops where we would need to use water cannon, I would have no hesitation in seeking support from the chief constable of Northern Ireland to deploy them. I don't see it as necessary, and nor do the 43 chiefs I spoke to this morning."

Jimmy Spratt, a former head of Northern Ireland's police federation, added that water cannon would be of no use in tackling the disturbances.

The Democratic Unionist said police in Belfast used water cannon to tackle mobs gathered in open locations and in large numbers.

But he argued that trying to use water cannon around commercial centres in London, Manchester or other cities was not feasible.

He said: "It is not workable at all. There are several points, including the size of these vehicles.

"The big issue would be manoeuvrability.

"They are suited to operating in a wide space, where police are faced with a crowd of rioters."

I make that Roger 4 Mignal 49

Make that Mignal 51 - Boris didn't agree with their use either. Boris is worth at least double Livingstone.
That's not a Riot but it certainly is a Rout. You really need to get some better quality players on your side Roger. Have a word with Abromovich. You can flog livingstone to non league.
More seriously though. If these methods were effective I would not have any qualms about them being used. On things of this nature you really should go with what the experts say. It's far too easy to think that a few water cannon and tear gas would have sorted everything out pronto. That's a natural reaction but it isn't a considered one. That's why the guy in the video is just ranting. He has no evidence of it's effectiveness. He's not the one who has to make the decisions.

 

[RogerS]

......

I make that Roger 4 Mignal 49

......

Rats !

Rubber bullets would work...so he's not talking complete rubbish

 

[Digit]

The Democratic Unionist said police in Belfast used water cannon to tackle mobs gathered in open locations and in large numbers.

Sounds ideal for Dale Farm doesn't it?

Roy.

 

[barkwindjammer]

Christ, Jacob. You remind me of my 87 year old mother. She's never wrong, either. She witters and talks boll*cks incessantly as well.

This is the point at which you (IMO) lost all credibility Rog, is this the source of your dis-affection ?

 

[Digit]

an amateur built the Ark.

But what a designer! :lol:

Roy.

 

[barkwindjammer]

Roy, you need to get off that warm toilet seat, put the paper down, switch off your 'OMG world news App' and make some stuff-from wood :wink:
cant wait for those pics

 

[Digit]

I am, making stuff, from brick at the moment, also rebuilding a motor bike. Pics? If I ever get my camera back, yeah!
The Ark designer was ok, the pilot wasn't too hot though, he ran into a mountain! :lol:

Roy.