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stevek

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Well Ive been ferriting about on the internet and was looking into Car Alarms because I dont want a PiR based system, the intruder is in before the alarm is set off, I like the idea of a vibration sensor perhaps coupled with a straightforward door switch and a siren, and the alarms that I was finding had a Shock Sensor plus lots of wire connections to wind up windows, flash lights and be triggered by interier lights etc, I felt that one of these could be adapted. I then found this,,,,,,,,,well there is supposed to be a link here but its a load of machine code,,anyway if your intrested you need to look up “Winomo 12v Motorcycle Alarm” its a simpler alarm, in fact just a vibration sensor coupled to a unit that switches the Siren and turns it off/resets, it will run of a 9v pp battery and has the press stud connector fitted, but its better off a 12v battery or a PSU. The clincher was seeing a review from a chap who has bought two for use on his sheds and I sent him a note asking how they were going, he says they are working really well and hes very pleased with them,,,,and each one comes with a pair of remote controls and includes postage for the grand sum of less than £11.
Well Im sure they are not going to be rolls royce quality, more made in china cheap rubbish I suppose, but then its all you buy regardless of price,,and for £11 Im happy to fiddle with it. It comes on Friday, I will have had an have an op on my hand on wed, so it might be a week or two before I can fit it, but I will let you know how I get on.
Steve.
 

Jelly

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Depends upon the location and distance, but alarm system cables should be multicore with at least one pair being part of an alarm loop so just cutting it will trigger. With more elaborate systems you also want a tamper loop so if it is cut but alarm is not set it will still trigger to warn you. Same applies to all component parts, jb's, panels etc which need anti tamper switches incase they are accessed.
That makes sense, if I ran a pair of 1mm² 7 core cables that would give me enough for a mag switch on each door, 2 PIR's, Tamper loop on remote panel, alarm loop, and communication for the remote panel.



In my last setup I ran two three inch corrugated pipes between utility and workshop so could always pull in additional cables.
This is a consideration, although adds cost compared to direct buried, I guess the question is whether it's cheaper right now to run a suitable conduit than the 2 additional cables.

Being old school I would also run internet to the workshop, but if you are modern phone user then probably not needed, I don't get on with so called smart phones at all, need a keyboard!
I'm running Cat 6 to add WiFi down there because there's no point me paying for full fibre internet to then rely on patchy 4G signal at a fraction of the speed; there's a consideration of moving my office out there for a while too to make other home improvements easier.

Have you thought of putting the alarm in your house and then the workshop as a zone from that. Make sure the alarm sounder is up high, not on side of the workshop because expanding foam can do a great job of keeping them quiet.
I think that's my best option, was looking at a Honeywell unit which allows me to have 6 zones plus 2 fire alarm zones, so would give workshop it's own security and fire zone.

Was planning to mount an rotary chopper type sounder internally in the centre of the roof space, and have the external sounder on the house, I like the rotary choppers as they're distinctive, difficult to ignore and deeply unpleasant to be close to, I worked on a plant which had them as Emergency Alert Sounders and you really knew about it during a test.
 
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MikeK

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With that in mind, what cable would you generally run to signal back to an alarm in the house?

I'm getting to the point where I'm ready to regularise the issues I had with my workshop electrics and will be putting in new buried SWA 3 Core & SWA Cat6; whilst I don't have the cash for an alarm installation right now, it would be stupid not to take the chance to run the cabling whilst I have a trench open.
Depending on the length of the run between your shop and house, I would start with 22AWG or 20AWG, or the European equivalent, for sensors. If you're trenching, I would install suitable direct burial conduit and put pull strings in the conduit that you can use later to pull the cables. In my experience, the cost is usually in making the trench, not in the cable that eventually goes in it. Using conduit gives you flexibility for other applications later.

I've designed, installed, commissioned, and maintained intrusion detection systems for sensitive applications for the past 45 years. Without exception, all of the systems use proprietary Premises Control Units (PCU) and software. However, every system used commercially available sensors for the rooms and doors. The sensors are nothing more than switch closures for the PCU, so any sensor that provides the desired response will work. We stopped using impact sensors for glass over 30 years ago because they were prone to nuisance alarms and we used better detection methods inside the area.

A commonly used PIR for my projects is something similar to the Bosch DS938Z. This PIR uses six conductor (three twisted pairs) cable. One pair is for the 12VDC power, one pair is for the sensor circuit, and one pair is for the tamper circuit. The twisted pair provides enough isolation, even in some of our most electrically noisy environments.

The high security switch (HSS), also called a balanced magnetic switch, such as the Interlogix 2707A, is used on all doors and functioning windows. This switch uses four conductor (two twisted pairs) cable. One pair is for the sensor circuit and the other pair is for the tamper circuit.

The PIR and HSS can be programmed at the PCU as either a normally open (NO) or normally closed (NC) condition on alarm. The device manufacturers provide this flexibility to ensure the devices will work with any PCU, even those that use terminating resistors. This flexibility also allows the installer to use a mix of sensor configuration so some are NC and some are NO. This makes it difficult for any intruder to successfully tamper with the wiring in hopes of defeating the sensor. The tamper circuit is always a NC configuration because it provides an indication of a cut cable as Roy mentioned.

If you use PIRs, I strongly recommend disabling the walk-test LED common to all PIRs once you are satisfied the device is functioning properly. This is the red light that comes on as you move around within the sensor's effective zone. Once the device is installed and tested, the light is no longer needed. We are required to disable the LED because it doesn't attract attention to the device and can't be used to determine the dead zones for the device. This feature is controlled by a DIP switch inside the PIR and can be accessed only after pulling the cover off, and triggering the tamper alarm.

These devices aren't cheap, but you should balance the cost of detection and reporting against the cost of the asset. We won't spend a million dollars to protect a hundred dollar asset. Likewise, we won't limit our budget to a hundred dollars to protect a million dollar asset.
 

MARK.B.

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Did not know you could disable that red light,will have to take a look at mine . Apart from the security aspect as Mike has pointed out I find the one in my workshop annoying as when you catch a glimpse in the periphery of your vision as it is quite bright you cannot but help to glance toward it even though my brain knows there is no need to look, my eyes do it anyway o_O:)
 

MikeK

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Did not know you could disable that red light,will have to take a look at mine . Apart from the security aspect as Mike has pointed out I find the one in my workshop annoying as when you catch a glimpse in the periphery of your vision as it is quite bright you cannot but help to glance toward it even though my brain knows there is no need to look, my eyes do it anyway o_O:)
The PIRs I specified and installed varied in cost from $25 to $180 each, depending on the manufacturer and features. All had a switch on the device circuit board to disable the LED.
 

MARK.B.

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Mine came as part of a kit that cost about £200 around 12 years ago so may or may not have the dip switch but will take a look.
 

Spectric

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Also I used dual tech sensors, combined microwave & infra red because they give better coverage and less false alarms. I think some of the sensors can know be programed from the main panel, rather than DIP switches on the actual sensor.

I will still say that the alarm is your last line of defence, you want strong deterents before they can break in and trigger the alarm. This is a catch 22 situation because if it looks like a fortress then they will believe there are good pickings but if it is not really secure they will break in just to find out. Good lighting and CCTV are sound detterents and single point of access to property can really help, thieves don't like not having a escape route if detected.

How bad is Sheffield these days for thieves, I remember people in the Peak district saying they had it bad because they had Manchester on one side and Sheffield on the other.
 

Fergie 307

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You can use the regular six core alarm cable for most things, but work out how many cores you need and buy that, just be aware that most systems are using 12v DC for the system wiring so you will get a drop in voltage over long runs. Should be ok over the distances round your house but if the workshop is some distance away could be a problem. If you have any doubts just cut a piece of cable the maximum length you will need and connect it up experimentally on the bench to make sure it will work. You don't want to install everything only to them find that voltage drop is stopping stuff from working correctly. I have a shed which is at the far end of the garden, about 200 feet from the house and main workshop. Too far away to be included in the other systems. It has mains power so it has its own alarm system. For internet I use a TP Link, sends the signal through the mains cables. It works really well.
 
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