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stevek

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Well Ive been ferriting about on the internet and was looking into Car Alarms because I dont want a PiR based system, the intruder is in before the alarm is set off, I like the idea of a vibration sensor perhaps coupled with a straightforward door switch and a siren, and the alarms that I was finding had a Shock Sensor plus lots of wire connections to wind up windows, flash lights and be triggered by interier lights etc, I felt that one of these could be adapted. I then found this,,,,,,,,,well there is supposed to be a link here but its a load of machine code,,anyway if your intrested you need to look up “Winomo 12v Motorcycle Alarm” its a simpler alarm, in fact just a vibration sensor coupled to a unit that switches the Siren and turns it off/resets, it will run of a 9v pp battery and has the press stud connector fitted, but its better off a 12v battery or a PSU. The clincher was seeing a review from a chap who has bought two for use on his sheds and I sent him a note asking how they were going, he says they are working really well and hes very pleased with them,,,,and each one comes with a pair of remote controls and includes postage for the grand sum of less than £11.
Well Im sure they are not going to be rolls royce quality, more made in china cheap rubbish I suppose, but then its all you buy regardless of price,,and for £11 Im happy to fiddle with it. It comes on Friday, I will have had an have an op on my hand on wed, so it might be a week or two before I can fit it, but I will let you know how I get on.
Steve.
 

Jelly

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Depends upon the location and distance, but alarm system cables should be multicore with at least one pair being part of an alarm loop so just cutting it will trigger. With more elaborate systems you also want a tamper loop so if it is cut but alarm is not set it will still trigger to warn you. Same applies to all component parts, jb's, panels etc which need anti tamper switches incase they are accessed.
That makes sense, if I ran a pair of 1mm² 7 core cables that would give me enough for a mag switch on each door, 2 PIR's, Tamper loop on remote panel, alarm loop, and communication for the remote panel.



In my last setup I ran two three inch corrugated pipes between utility and workshop so could always pull in additional cables.
This is a consideration, although adds cost compared to direct buried, I guess the question is whether it's cheaper right now to run a suitable conduit than the 2 additional cables.

Being old school I would also run internet to the workshop, but if you are modern phone user then probably not needed, I don't get on with so called smart phones at all, need a keyboard!
I'm running Cat 6 to add WiFi down there because there's no point me paying for full fibre internet to then rely on patchy 4G signal at a fraction of the speed; there's a consideration of moving my office out there for a while too to make other home improvements easier.

Have you thought of putting the alarm in your house and then the workshop as a zone from that. Make sure the alarm sounder is up high, not on side of the workshop because expanding foam can do a great job of keeping them quiet.
I think that's my best option, was looking at a Honeywell unit which allows me to have 6 zones plus 2 fire alarm zones, so would give workshop it's own security and fire zone.

Was planning to mount an rotary chopper type sounder internally in the centre of the roof space, and have the external sounder on the house, I like the rotary choppers as they're distinctive, difficult to ignore and deeply unpleasant to be close to, I worked on a plant which had them as Emergency Alert Sounders and you really knew about it during a test.
 
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MikeK

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With that in mind, what cable would you generally run to signal back to an alarm in the house?

I'm getting to the point where I'm ready to regularise the issues I had with my workshop electrics and will be putting in new buried SWA 3 Core & SWA Cat6; whilst I don't have the cash for an alarm installation right now, it would be stupid not to take the chance to run the cabling whilst I have a trench open.
Depending on the length of the run between your shop and house, I would start with 22AWG or 20AWG, or the European equivalent, for sensors. If you're trenching, I would install suitable direct burial conduit and put pull strings in the conduit that you can use later to pull the cables. In my experience, the cost is usually in making the trench, not in the cable that eventually goes in it. Using conduit gives you flexibility for other applications later.

I've designed, installed, commissioned, and maintained intrusion detection systems for sensitive applications for the past 45 years. Without exception, all of the systems use proprietary Premises Control Units (PCU) and software. However, every system used commercially available sensors for the rooms and doors. The sensors are nothing more than switch closures for the PCU, so any sensor that provides the desired response will work. We stopped using impact sensors for glass over 30 years ago because they were prone to nuisance alarms and we used better detection methods inside the area.

A commonly used PIR for my projects is something similar to the Bosch DS938Z. This PIR uses six conductor (three twisted pairs) cable. One pair is for the 12VDC power, one pair is for the sensor circuit, and one pair is for the tamper circuit. The twisted pair provides enough isolation, even in some of our most electrically noisy environments.

The high security switch (HSS), also called a balanced magnetic switch, such as the Interlogix 2707A, is used on all doors and functioning windows. This switch uses four conductor (two twisted pairs) cable. One pair is for the sensor circuit and the other pair is for the tamper circuit.

The PIR and HSS can be programmed at the PCU as either a normally open (NO) or normally closed (NC) condition on alarm. The device manufacturers provide this flexibility to ensure the devices will work with any PCU, even those that use terminating resistors. This flexibility also allows the installer to use a mix of sensor configuration so some are NC and some are NO. This makes it difficult for any intruder to successfully tamper with the wiring in hopes of defeating the sensor. The tamper circuit is always a NC configuration because it provides an indication of a cut cable as Roy mentioned.

If you use PIRs, I strongly recommend disabling the walk-test LED common to all PIRs once you are satisfied the device is functioning properly. This is the red light that comes on as you move around within the sensor's effective zone. Once the device is installed and tested, the light is no longer needed. We are required to disable the LED because it doesn't attract attention to the device and can't be used to determine the dead zones for the device. This feature is controlled by a DIP switch inside the PIR and can be accessed only after pulling the cover off, and triggering the tamper alarm.

These devices aren't cheap, but you should balance the cost of detection and reporting against the cost of the asset. We won't spend a million dollars to protect a hundred dollar asset. Likewise, we won't limit our budget to a hundred dollars to protect a million dollar asset.
 

MARK.B.

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Did not know you could disable that red light,will have to take a look at mine . Apart from the security aspect as Mike has pointed out I find the one in my workshop annoying as when you catch a glimpse in the periphery of your vision as it is quite bright you cannot but help to glance toward it even though my brain knows there is no need to look, my eyes do it anyway o_O:)
 

MikeK

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Did not know you could disable that red light,will have to take a look at mine . Apart from the security aspect as Mike has pointed out I find the one in my workshop annoying as when you catch a glimpse in the periphery of your vision as it is quite bright you cannot but help to glance toward it even though my brain knows there is no need to look, my eyes do it anyway o_O:)
The PIRs I specified and installed varied in cost from $25 to $180 each, depending on the manufacturer and features. All had a switch on the device circuit board to disable the LED.
 

MARK.B.

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Mine came as part of a kit that cost about £200 around 12 years ago so may or may not have the dip switch but will take a look.
 

Spectric

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Also I used dual tech sensors, combined microwave & infra red because they give better coverage and less false alarms. I think some of the sensors can know be programed from the main panel, rather than DIP switches on the actual sensor.

I will still say that the alarm is your last line of defence, you want strong deterents before they can break in and trigger the alarm. This is a catch 22 situation because if it looks like a fortress then they will believe there are good pickings but if it is not really secure they will break in just to find out. Good lighting and CCTV are sound detterents and single point of access to property can really help, thieves don't like not having a escape route if detected.

How bad is Sheffield these days for thieves, I remember people in the Peak district saying they had it bad because they had Manchester on one side and Sheffield on the other.
 

Fergie 307

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You can use the regular six core alarm cable for most things, but work out how many cores you need and buy that, just be aware that most systems are using 12v DC for the system wiring so you will get a drop in voltage over long runs. Should be ok over the distances round your house but if the workshop is some distance away could be a problem. If you have any doubts just cut a piece of cable the maximum length you will need and connect it up experimentally on the bench to make sure it will work. You don't want to install everything only to them find that voltage drop is stopping stuff from working correctly. I have a shed which is at the far end of the garden, about 200 feet from the house and main workshop. Too far away to be included in the other systems. It has mains power so it has its own alarm system. For internet I use a TP Link, sends the signal through the mains cables. It works really well.
 

Stevekane

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Well the Ebay £11 WinoMo motorbike alarm arrived and whilst I cannot fit it yet this is how things look. Its a small plastic box perhaps 60mm sq and around 12mm deep, there are no fixing lugs and they supply sticky pads, from one end the wiring emerges, a single arial wire, a short fly lead to connect to a PP9 battery, a pair of 12v power leads, a fly lead to a push fit connecter which connects to the Siren. The Siren is flimsier that I expected, very lightweight plastic, built in fixing bracket, 50mm overall dia,,but I suppose it only has to sit somewhere hidden,,,and make a noise! You also get two car style remote controls, a bit plasticky but with nice clicky buttons, and the batteries were ready fitted.
So today I got the bits out, the instructions are in two languages,,one is english,,,but the instructions are for a completely diffent alarm!,,,ah the joys of buying cheap chinese! Anyway its all so simple to click together the instructions are not required,,so why did they bother? It doesnt have to have the PP9 battery fitted at all if its wired to a bike battery or psu, but I suppose its a back up and it allowed me to put it all together and try it..
I had it all just laying loose on a wooden garden table, press the lock button and you get a fairly loud chirp to tell you its on, tap the table and its Wow Wow Wow,,,louder than I expected, 125db they said but who knows? It was loud enough,,and would be very loud in the dead of night when your out aburgleing! Frantic pressing of the unlock button had it cycling through a range of whoops, sirens, police sirens,,every chirp and beep out there,,,and finally silence,,,try again, press lock and get single chirp,,,go to end of 6ft table and just the lightest tap with my fingernail,,whoop whoop whoop, sirens etc. So its very sensitive, I wonder how it works? Anyway it looks like I will be able to clamp it to the door frame, and run the siren outside, my guess is that it will be sensitive enough to pick up any vibrations around the door and I will have to see if false alarms are an issue. The instructions (for another alarm entirely) say that if one particular button is held down you can adjust the sensitivity,,not sure if it applies to this one,,it has the button though! My neighbour asked what the alarm was, they live 50yards away, so I have to say that so far Im quite pleased with it. Might get it fitted next week and give a short update for anyone interested.
Steve.
 

Stevekane

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Ive fitted the Winomo motorcycle alarm and its very good indeed, I had to make a bracket to hold it to the door frame, and at the moment its running off the PP9 battery but I have an unused Bell Transformer which I will wire it to. Its mounted on the inside of the frame which is made of 2x3 and slight movement of the doors has no effect, but anything more and you get a very loud 3 or 4 seconds worth of sirens, try again and the alarm runs for,,,,well too long to just let it run its course, I think its 30seconds? The sensitivity does appear to be adjustable, 5 levels although I couldn't really tell much difference, maybe to do with what its mounted on? And interestingly the siren seems to cycle through a range of different sounds when its set off, so very effective.
The remote controls work great, Ive not tested the range but its enough for me, and you get a single chirp when locking and a double chirp unlocking.
So it seems to be a great little alarm for a shed, and Im very happy given its features and price, lets hope it lasts!
Steve.
 

danst96

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I have been stressing about my shop and this week I decided to try something. In the house we have a wireless Yale alarm system which we set each night and i decided to put a PIR in the shop and see if it would work. My shop is roughly 15-20 meters away from the house and with the PIR mounted on the door it reaches the house. This means if it is triggered in the night it will set the alarm off inside the house alerting us straight away. If you have a wireless alarm system it could be worth a shout.

It also phones you when the alarm goes off so if we are away from the house you will know about it and could potentially act on it.
 

Stevekane

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I have been stressing about my shop and this week I decided to try something. In the house we have a wireless Yale alarm system which we set each night and i decided to put a PIR in the shop and see if it would work. My shop is roughly 15-20 meters away from the house and with the PIR mounted on the door it reaches the house. This means if it is triggered in the night it will set the alarm off inside the house alerting us straight away. If you have a wireless alarm system it could be worth a shout.

It also phones you when the alarm goes off so if we are away from the house you will know about it and could potentially act on it.
For anyone with wireless alarms thats got to be worth checking out, perhaps a factor might be the base station location,,I guess they do have one? It might even be worth seeing if the base station could be moved to bring it in range of the shed as well. Certainly in our area social media is awash with Ring doorbell cameras picking up people sneaking around gardens at 3 am, trouble is the pictures are not so clear and they wear hoodies and face masks, no police about to trouble them either, makes you feel a bit better having the alarm.
 

Spectric

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Something that I don't think has been mentioned is the driveway and paths. If they are slabs, tarmac or the like it is easy to walk along them quietly, but gravel, shingle or shillies are another story because you will make noise and this can also put the thieves off.
 

Stevekane

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Something that I don't think has been mentioned is the driveway and paths. If they are slabs, tarmac or the like it is easy to walk along them quietly, but gravel, shingle or shillies are another story because you will make noise and this can also put the thieves off.
Quite right Roy, my situation is that my shed is round in the garden, and nothing to stop theives walking around the back on grass, we have a little terrier and she has 24hrs access to the garden through a “cat flap” and any noise would have her out there barking, and thats the best we can hope for, that noise, my little alarm, the dog barking will scare them off.
Steve.
 

Stevekane

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What no gates!
Well only the front gate that cannot be locked, and my concerns have been heightened because we have a lane running along the side of our garden, the undergrowth, brambles and the like took a bashing in the gales a couple of months back and a lot of it has had to be cleared, so people walking by have for the moment a good view into the garden,,thats what prompted me to get the alarm.
Steve.
 

Richard_C

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A few things spring to mind. First is that determined professionals will get what they want regardless, the second is that the easy pickings thief can be deterred but maybe not stopped. In either case, if you have a remote alarm to alert you you will feel obliged to 'do something' and that might not have a good outcome. Rushing out in dead of night, whether to a crack-head or a professional team, might not end well for you. Maybe if you are big, fit and determined, but not me at 68 years old. If they take some tools, they take them. The police won't be there for a while, even if they do turn out. Dog thefts are at an all time high, some will like noisy dogs becsue it tells them where to go to steal a dog. So an alarm needs to be noisy and visible to frighten them off.

So if we can't stop the professionals what can we do to hinder the petty thief?

Back in the days when I carried cameras around on trips I was always bemused by those who had fancy branded Nikon or Canon carry bags. A plain old battered rucksach suited me - never a guarantee but whose are they likely to target? When I travelled for work, some collegues loved to brandish their "Toshiba" laptop bags, I just used a briefcase. One guy I was with walked out of a hotel, man in suit came up to him and said "your taxi sir", helpfully took his toshiba bag and as we got into the taxi it dawned on him that the driver was sitting in the drivers seat, the man who now had his computer was nowhere to be seen. It is relevant - some tools come in fancy branded cases now, ideal if every day you are taking them to and from your van or onto site but I don't do that. If they steal my branded double drill/driver case they get a few bags of miscelleneous nails, the tools are in unremarkalble cupboards. Ok they can find them but not just grab them. I can get my chainsaw out with no effort, but its not hung on a wall under a sign saying "expensive chainsaw look at me". My double garage (which is half garage half workshop) has up and over doors which are easy to secure from inside, just drill through the return flange of the door and into the frame somewhere below the pivot centre and stick a rod, bolt or tentpeg in. Normally there are cars parked tight against them anyway. I'm fastidious about not cleaning the screwed-shut windows at the back, so you can't peer in and go "oooooh look at that". So its just an unwindowed side door, decent locks and of someone does get through and stumble around they will have to open a fair few unlabeled cupboards to assemble a decent haul. They can't see what's in there until they get in, so are more likely to try somewhere else.

I have a few simple timeswitches and if we go away there are lights and a radio coming on and off in different parts of the adjacent but unattached house, inclusing upstairs so you can't see in to check if there really is someone there. We use to live in an area known for its 'just off the motorway' break ins. If we went out for an evening I would leave a Gene Pitney CD (came free with a newspaper) playing on repeat - its an awful noise, we were never burgled aso I still do it to this day if are off to the cinema or whatever (I wish ....seems like forever ago). In my limited expereince, Gene Pitney's voice = 100% deterrent.

If I were a professional it would be different of course but for me its about sensible compromises.
 

Spectric

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Well only the front gate that cannot be locked, and my concerns have been heightened because we have a lane running along the side of our garden,
Thats always a concern having any public right of way next to your property, allows people to see to much and the lay of the land.

Back in the days when I carried cameras around on trips I was always bemused by those who had fancy branded Nikon or Canon carry bags. A plain old battered rucksach suited me - never a guarantee but whose are they likely to target? When I travelled for work, some collegues loved to brandish their "Toshiba" laptop bags, I just used a briefcase. One guy I was with walked out of a hotel, man in suit came up to him and said "your taxi sir", helpfully took his toshiba bag and as we got into the taxi it dawned on him that the driver was sitting in the drivers seat, the man who now had his computer was nowhere to be seen. It is relevant - some tools come in fancy branded cases now, ideal if every day you are taking them to and from your van or onto site but I don't do that.
That is so true, any thief will steal stuff if you advertise it and wave it under their nose, and the same applies to people who put their packaging outside to advertise they have just brought a new 200 inch telly, you have just told all the local scum that you have something they want, and maybe even more stuff.
 

Woody2Shoes

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I have been known - when having a particularly attractive piece of kit delivered - to (in earshot of the delivery driver) have a 'phone conversation' with a 'mate' to tell him his new gear's arrived and when does he want to drop round and collect it. That and shredding any branded cardboard boxes, rather than putting them stright in the recycling bin. I think that there are people in certain pubs who offer drinks in return for tips on recently delivered goodies.
 

Pallet Fancier

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... we have a little terrier and she has 24hrs access to the garden through a “cat flap” and any noise would have her out there barking, and thats the best we can hope for, that noise, my little alarm, the dog barking will scare them off.
Steve.
I'd just like to point out that last year has seen an all time high achieved for dog thefts. Depending on the breed and the location, they are either stolen to order for resale, or more commonly they are stolen for use as bait dogs at dog fighting events.

Yes, dog fighting. We didn't evolve past this disgusting "sport" yet. We didn't leave it behind in the 18th century, like many people assume. Still happens, and chances are you have met someone who's attended an evening of such "entertainment" and "had a flutter" as though they were down the races. Except in this case, act one is the warm-up in which an attack dog rips a little terrier's legs off. Then it might disembowel it. Then the terrier finally dies. Act two they might bring in a lab or a collie. Act three, the main event! Two attack dogs! Put your money down, ladies and gents!

I apologise if I've been graphic or dramatic. Actually, I don't. This is a message that needs to get out. The human garbage that runs these shows and attends them are quite active across most of the country, but the police don't have the resources and the media are afraid of making their viewers/readers upset if they report on it too often.

Puppies are stolen, too. Breeding age bitches are stolen to provide puppies. The puppies aren't used in the fights. They're used in training and as food. There was a breeder/trainer openly living in a housing estate near me. Eventually, the screams were noticed, questions were asked, and he realised he was attracting attention. One day his house was empty, and the stinking shed full of small, uneaten ... parts ... was empty, as well. Unfortunately, he wasn't arrested and his animals weren't destroyed so god knows where they are, now.

People, keep your dogs indoors at night, or at any time when you're not home to supervise them, or notice intruders. Dogs get stolen out of back gardens all the time. Terriers, Spaniels, Frenchies, those curly little Bichon Frises, even Labradors and other gun dogs.

And nine times out of ten, it's to use them as bait in dog fights. So no use putting up posters for rewards, because the dog hasn't been "rehomed". It's been minced.

I could tell you stories that would send your hair white if it isn't already.

Please don't give these scumbags the opportunity.

Sorry for preaching. But dogs are not the answer. Some of these swine would actually steal your dog in preference to the power tools!
 
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