Poor english

[woodbloke]

Some great stuff on this thread.

Regarding Tony's 'coma', I was taught that there should not be one immediately before an 'and' having been brought up in an education system that taught grammar and Copperplate handwriting :shock: I can't abide text speak under any circumstances (what's an M8, do they exist, am I one :? ?)

I make the attempt to use the Queen's english as well I can, not always as successfully as I would have wanted as sometimes the meaning of what I'm trying to say becomes misplaced and it becomes tricky to convey the exact nuances of the language...hence the use of the smilies to reinforce the poster's emotional angle on the point.

Paragraphed for Dan :lol:...good point, will keep that in mind - Rob

 

[Paul Chapman]

what's an M8, do they exist, am I one :? ?

Init that metric stuff :?

 

[woodbloke]

what's an M8, do they exist, am I one :? ?

Init that metric stuff :?

:lol: - Rob

 

[Steve Maskery]

My understanding is that a comma should not be used before "and" when the "and" is linking two clauses, but can be used when the "and" is the last element of a list. It's an Oxford Comma, isn't it?

Personally I think that a comma before "and" improves readability no end, so I often use it. It saves having to go back and read the sentence again to make sure that I have phrased it in my head correctly.

S

 

[Paul Chapman]

If you want to know about punctuation, it's really worth reading "Eats, Shoots and Leaves" by Lynne Truss - excellent and humorous.

Cheers :wink:

Paul

 

[Karl]

If you want to know about punctuation, it's really worth reading "Eats, Shoots and Leaves" by Lynne Truss - excellent and humorous.

Cheers :wink:

Paul

I haven't read the book, but the title must be from the joke about the Panda bear.

Cheers

Karl

 

[Tusses]

I was taught no comma before an and, in any circumstances. But then again, I was taught one space after a comma and two after a full stop... How to set out a letter, indent the 1st paragraph ... write the address on the envelope etc etc

Apparently things have changed and 'they dont do it that way anymore' in the few places it is still taught, so that doesn't help the situation either.

 

[lurker]

(what's an M8, do they exist, am I one :? ?)

As any fule no - it is a M8, not an M8 :roll:

 

[Paul Chapman]

Isn't one of the problems that much of the English language has evolved through common usage - and continues to do so. It is, therefore, very difficult to say what is correct. Something may have been correct a few years ago but has evolved, changed and become accepted through common usage.

Cheers :wink:

Paul

 

[lurker]

Paul,

So............. if I follow your theory of evolution and deck every pretentious . who misuses "myself" & "yourself", it's use might die out ??? :wink:

 

[herdsman]

Some great stuff on this thread.

I can't abide text speak under any circumstances (what's an M8, do they exist, am I one :? ?)

Rob

Yes it does exist, it's a motorway in Scotland

 

[Paul Chapman]

One thing I find fascinating about all this is that many children struggle with English, grammar, spelling and punctuation. However, they have mastered text speak (should that be 'txt spk' :? ) without difficulty.

I would class text speak as a new language and learning it no different, in principle, from learning any other language.

Maybe they saw nothing in it for them to learn English properly but they saw plenty in it (ie keeping in with their mates - M8s 8) ) to learn text speak :wink:

Of course, later in life they find that there was plenty of value in learning English properly - but it's a bit late then

Cheers :wink:

Paul

 

[Digit]

Morning Mark. No the Welsh language never died out despite the best efforts of the English government up till the early 20C.
The language is in every day use in this area but it actually has two distinct forms.
The Norman French cut the country in two, north and south of the R Teifi at Cardigan, and believe it or not a degree of animosity still exists between the two areas. With the Norman French in control of parts the language separated slightly.
Church, for example is Llan in the north and Eglwys in the south, in my area the two overlap and the Welsh Language Society is quite frequently in conflict with local opinion on naming.

Roy.

 

[BradNaylor]

Church, for example is Llan in the north and Eglwys in the south, in my area the two overlap and the Welsh Language Society is quite frequently in conflict with local opinion on naming.

Roy.

Not always, Roy.

The village of Eglwysbach (little church) is near Conwy, definitely in North Wales!

Dan

 

[Argee]

It is, therefore, very difficult to say what is correct.

Now we've travelled full circle!

No, it isn't difficult to say what's correct, it just takes more thought and effort, which was lurker's main point in the first place, I think.

Ray.

 

[Tusses]

It is, therefore, very difficult to say what is correct.

Now we've travelled full circle!

No, it isn't difficult to say what's correct, it just takes more thought and effort, which was lurker's main point in the first place, I think.

Ray.

but surely if each generation learns a 'new' set of rules - then each generation would think the other is incorrect.

Except those that can see it is changing

the difference here is good/poor and correct/incorrect - somewhere inbetween thee must be a line ?

 

[Paul Chapman]

It is, therefore, very difficult to say what is correct.

No, it isn't difficult to say what's correct, it just takes more thought and effort, which was lurker's main point in the first place, I think.

I think it can be difficult insofar as things change and move on. For example, when I started work, you would always address someone when writing to them as follows (assuming the person was a bloke):

P. N. Chapman, Esq.,

Then the convention changed to:

P N Chapman Esq where the punctuation was dropped.

Then we moved to:

Mr P N Chapman as a less formal approach tended to be adopted.

Then because of all the sexist stuff it changed to

P N Chapman or

Paul Chapman

So in that sense, it can be difficult to say what is 'right'. In the above examples, I think you could say that they are all right, or possibly none is wrong. But they are all different, which can make it difficult for people.

Cheers :wink:

Paul

 

[woodbloke]

It is, therefore, very difficult to say what is correct.

No, it isn't difficult to say what's correct, it just takes more thought and effort, which was lurker's main point in the first place, I think.

I think it can be difficult insofar as things change and move on. For example, when I started work, you would always address someone when writing to them as follows (assuming the person was a bloke):

P. N. Chapman, Esq.,

Then the convention changed to:

P N Chapman Esq where the punctuation was dropped.

Then we moved to:

Mr P N Chapman as a less formal approach tended to be adopted.

Then because of all the sexist stuff it changed to

P N Chapman or

Paul Chapman

So in that sense, it can be difficult to say what is 'right'. In the above examples, I think you could say that they are all right, or possibly none is wrong. But they are all different, which can make it difficult for people.

Cheers :wink:

Paul

Paul - I think your Christmas card this year will be addressed to Paul Chapman Esq and Mrs Chapman :lol: - Rob

 

[Paul Chapman]

Paul - I think your Christmas card this year will be addressed to Paul Chapman Esq and Mrs Chapman :lol: - Rob

That's good - last year I had to explain to her who "SWMBO" was :lol:

 

[davegw]

I make the attempt to use the Queen's english as well I can,

That'll be German then? :wink: :wink: :wink:

Seriously though, there have been lots of really good books written about the origin of language

This one by Bill Bryson is my favouri

Dave