Jacob
New Luddism. Awake and resist!
Plus the usual paraphernalia.Reggie":3ms35wal said:
Plane sharpening help please
- Thread starter bexupnorth
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woodbrains
Established Member
Jacob":3e81igbx said:
Hello,
What paraphernalia? A jig, a stone or two. Don't think there are any special costumes or safety harnesses or anything. Am I missing something, or is my contention that using a sharpening jig actually isn't complicated or fussy actually registering.
Mike.
Paul Chapman
Established Member
I nearly always use a honing guide. I think they are great 
Can't understand this obsession some people have with wanting to hone freehand - IMHO it can never be as accurate as using a guide.
Cheers :wink:
Paul
Can't understand this obsession some people have with wanting to hone freehand - IMHO it can never be as accurate as using a guide.
Cheers :wink:
Paul
Jacob
New Luddism. Awake and resist!
This is just a starter kit :roll: http://www.workshopheaven.com/tools/Bas ... g_Kit.htmlwoodbrains":16tb2xuu said:
Jacob
New Luddism. Awake and resist!
It's just that our OP is having a go and everybody is trying to put him off! I think he should be encouraged. They are just jealous because they can't do it. :lol:Paul Chapman":208uiiyy said:I nearly always use a honing guide. I think they are great
Can't understand this obsession some people have with wanting to hone freehand - IMHO it can never be as accurate as using a guide.
Cheers :wink:
Paul
Makes you wonder how they manage other woodworking tasks as many of them are much more demanding than freehand sharpening. Maybe they don't actually do a lot?
Paul Chapman
Established Member
Jacob":3k2dis05 said:
Probably. Most people on here are hobby woodworkers and have to fit their hobby in around everything else, so they don't hone often enough to become proficient at free-hand honing.
Some people can do it very well. Mike Hudson of Clifton Planes; Garrett Hack; John Lloyd - I've seen them all free-hand hone and get their blades super sharp. But they are doing it all the time so become proficient. The rest of us are probably more infrequent woodworkers and therefore need the help of a guide to get super sharp blades.
But there really isn't an issue. Can't understand why you go on about it so much. Do you suffer from OCD :? :lol:
Cheers :wink:
Paul
Corneel
Established Member
Dear Bexupnorth,
There's something in your post I don't quite understand. You wan't to avoid honing? Maybe it's just a vocabulairy misunderstanding, but honing is always part of sharpening edge tools, jigs or no jigs. Honing is just the last polishing phase, after grinding the edge to the required shape.
I think your edge is just not sharp yet. Or maybe you have honed way too high an angle? If your getting very close to 45 degrees you are running out of clearance and the plane won't work right anymore. But I really think your edge is just not sharp. Planing against the grain is a bit harder to do then planing with the grain, so that might explain the directional difference.
BTW, trying to learn sharpening freehand is a very good idea. There are so many tools not fitting into a jig, that learning to freehand is an unavoidable skill. Better learn it on something easy like a chisel or plane blade, so you have the skill when you really need it.
There's something in your post I don't quite understand. You wan't to avoid honing? Maybe it's just a vocabulairy misunderstanding, but honing is always part of sharpening edge tools, jigs or no jigs. Honing is just the last polishing phase, after grinding the edge to the required shape.
I think your edge is just not sharp yet. Or maybe you have honed way too high an angle? If your getting very close to 45 degrees you are running out of clearance and the plane won't work right anymore. But I really think your edge is just not sharp. Planing against the grain is a bit harder to do then planing with the grain, so that might explain the directional difference.
BTW, trying to learn sharpening freehand is a very good idea. There are so many tools not fitting into a jig, that learning to freehand is an unavoidable skill. Better learn it on something easy like a chisel or plane blade, so you have the skill when you really need it.
Jacob
New Luddism. Awake and resist!
Very probably.Paul Chapman":22bqct00 said:
But it's important to me and a daily issue. Today frinstance I'm putting these stairs together which means: trimming housings around a scotia moulding (4 or five chisels and a gouge), a bit of hand planing (Stanley 6) to shoot things to fit, a bit of rebate planing ditto (Stanley 78), taking off arrises (Stanley 220), cleaning up housing faces (2 1/2" Marples). It's repetitive which means very quickly you become aware of when things need sharpening. Fiddling with crazy sharpening techniques with about 10 tools would be extremely tedious. Whereas a little and often freehand fettle is no problem at all, keeps everything beautifully sharp and makes a nice little break. And they'll be sharp when I start again tomorrow - in fact all the planes under my bench are sharp and instantly available thanks to a little and often.
Paul Chapman
Established Member
Hope you'll post some pictures when you've done the stairs, Jacob. Much more interesting to discuss projects than sharpening :wink:
Cheers :wink:
Paul
Cheers :wink:
Paul
bugbear
Established Member
Jacob":129g14zb said:
And yet another Jacob strawman lurches into view. For chissakes, Jacob, find something REAL to object to.
Blade in jig, rub back and forth on a few grits. Not crazy at all. A quick and reliable route to a sharp blade.
BugBear
Corneel
Established Member
And how do you sharpen a gouge?
Reggie
Established Member
I bought my honing guide kit for the sum total of £11 inc vat. It came with an oil stone and a bottle of honing oil, adding a whole £2 to the total.Jacob":33k6y93c said:
Corneel
Established Member
Or a scrub plane blade? Or a moulding profile, marking knife, router plane, skewed chisel? With a jig?
Corneel
Established Member
A handsaw, wooden spokeshave, drawknife, axe?
Jacob
New Luddism. Awake and resist!
The same way as the others except for a little slip stone for the inside edge.Corneel":2ynbx5j8 said:
Ditto
Except for the saw ditto again.
Jacob
New Luddism. Awake and resist!
What's the jig for? I don't need one. When I tried with a jig it wouldn't work unless the stones were all dead flat and the jig very precisely set. Wouldn't do a camber either. Completely bloody pointless!! :lol: :lol: :lol:bugbear":uxd9jgkx said:
bugbear
Established Member
Jacob":33qepbj8 said:
Since each and every one of those points has been previously refuted, I suggest you google them. You appear to be a very slow learner.
BugBear
Cheshirechappie
Established Member
I think one of the secrets of freehand sharpening is developing a way of holding the plane blade securely so that you maintain the honing angle, so that the blade doesn't pivot up and down, rounding off the edge. Everybody develops a slightly different technique, so this may not be ideal for you, but I offer it for what it may be worth.
When gripping the plane iron, I support the bevel side of it (which is underneath as you hold it to sharpen it) lightly on my thumbs, and rest the top end of the blade in the webs between my thumbs and index fingers, then apply pressure to the upper (flat) surface of the blade with my index fingers. My thumbs and index fingers are just clear of the surface of the stone, so are about as close as I can get them to the cutting edge without dragging my fingers across the stone. Then I feel for the grinding bevel of the blade on the stone, settling the whole bevel in contact with the stone. Then raise it a couple of degrees so that only the cutting edge is in contact, and lock my wrists. Then, with pressure from my index fingers (and second fingers if the blade is wide enough), start honing by pivotting at my shoulders and elbows. My forearms stay horizontal, and parallel to the bench, and I take a firm stance with my feet, and keep my head still. This feels awkward at first, but with a little practice you relax and just stroke the blade up and down the stone. It quite quickly becomes second nature.
The real skill is ensuring that the blade you're honing can't pivot about the cutting edge on the stone, as that will round the very edge. It's OK to round the bevel BEHIND the cutting edge if you want to, but you must NEVER exceed your chosen honing angle right at the edge. Once you develop a technique that suits you to hold the blade so that it can't pivot above the honing angle, you've just about cracked freehand sharpening. You'll get better and better with practice.
There are a couple of ways to see if your finished edge is sharp, once you've honed and backed off the wire edge. On is to hold the edge up to the light, and look for a gleam of light along the edge. If there is one along the edge or part of it, that's light reflecting off a rounded edge, and the blade isn't sharp. If there's no gleam of light, there's no rounding, and the edge is sharp. Another test is to (gently!) feel the edge with the ball of your thumb. If it catches your skin, it's sharp; if it slides over your skin, it isn't. Another is to rest the edge on your thumbnail. If it catches, it's sharp; if it slides, it isn't. Using one of these tests can tell you whether you need to do more work to the edge without having to reassemble the cap-iron, reset the blade in the plane and take a test cut.
After several honings, the sharpening bevel you create on the stone will start to get larger, so will take longer to bring back to sharp. You can either lightly regrind the primary bevel (I use a Tormek wetstone grinder, but some people use high-speed offhand grinders, or a very coarse grit sharpening stone) or slightly increase the honing angle. Obviously, there's a limit to how much you can increase the angle before regrinding becomes necessary, but it can help you finish a planing job without having to stop to regrind. It's not really best practice, though.
Keep on persisting with the freehand sharpening if you can get it to work for you; it's a handy skill. However, if you really can't get on with it, there's no shame in using a honing jig. The only 'shame' is in having to use tools that are not sharp enough!
When gripping the plane iron, I support the bevel side of it (which is underneath as you hold it to sharpen it) lightly on my thumbs, and rest the top end of the blade in the webs between my thumbs and index fingers, then apply pressure to the upper (flat) surface of the blade with my index fingers. My thumbs and index fingers are just clear of the surface of the stone, so are about as close as I can get them to the cutting edge without dragging my fingers across the stone. Then I feel for the grinding bevel of the blade on the stone, settling the whole bevel in contact with the stone. Then raise it a couple of degrees so that only the cutting edge is in contact, and lock my wrists. Then, with pressure from my index fingers (and second fingers if the blade is wide enough), start honing by pivotting at my shoulders and elbows. My forearms stay horizontal, and parallel to the bench, and I take a firm stance with my feet, and keep my head still. This feels awkward at first, but with a little practice you relax and just stroke the blade up and down the stone. It quite quickly becomes second nature.
The real skill is ensuring that the blade you're honing can't pivot about the cutting edge on the stone, as that will round the very edge. It's OK to round the bevel BEHIND the cutting edge if you want to, but you must NEVER exceed your chosen honing angle right at the edge. Once you develop a technique that suits you to hold the blade so that it can't pivot above the honing angle, you've just about cracked freehand sharpening. You'll get better and better with practice.
There are a couple of ways to see if your finished edge is sharp, once you've honed and backed off the wire edge. On is to hold the edge up to the light, and look for a gleam of light along the edge. If there is one along the edge or part of it, that's light reflecting off a rounded edge, and the blade isn't sharp. If there's no gleam of light, there's no rounding, and the edge is sharp. Another test is to (gently!) feel the edge with the ball of your thumb. If it catches your skin, it's sharp; if it slides over your skin, it isn't. Another is to rest the edge on your thumbnail. If it catches, it's sharp; if it slides, it isn't. Using one of these tests can tell you whether you need to do more work to the edge without having to reassemble the cap-iron, reset the blade in the plane and take a test cut.
After several honings, the sharpening bevel you create on the stone will start to get larger, so will take longer to bring back to sharp. You can either lightly regrind the primary bevel (I use a Tormek wetstone grinder, but some people use high-speed offhand grinders, or a very coarse grit sharpening stone) or slightly increase the honing angle. Obviously, there's a limit to how much you can increase the angle before regrinding becomes necessary, but it can help you finish a planing job without having to stop to regrind. It's not really best practice, though.
Keep on persisting with the freehand sharpening if you can get it to work for you; it's a handy skill. However, if you really can't get on with it, there's no shame in using a honing jig. The only 'shame' is in having to use tools that are not sharp enough!
Paul Chapman
Established Member
Cheshirechappie":17guwc1d said:
Well said.
Cheers :wink:
Paul
woodbrains
Established Member
Jacob":94x14gcu said:
Hello,
Indeed, this is a freehand starter kit; the clue is the absence of any jig!
Mike
