Plane sharpening help please

[bexupnorth]

Hi All,

I hope this doesn't spark the usual round of arguments, but I have a problem with my sharpening technique.

I've decided to give freehand sharpening the time and effort it deserves as it makes sense to me to do the little and often thing rather than spending a whole weekend sharpening almost dead tools, which is what seems to happen at the moment. Please don't recommend I go back to honing as I want to focus on something for once instead of chasing some holy grail that doesn't exist. I know honing works, but I want to try the flexibility and speed that freehand seems to offer.

Anyhoo, I've bought a couple of half decent stones and seem to be getting the knack with chisels and sort of with planes. The problem is my planes are clearly sharp, but only seem capable of cutting in one direction. I've never experienced this before so can only assume it's something to do with my technique.

I'm working in pine (tests on hardwoods are not as susceptible to the problem) and with a piece in the vice, I can either take a lovely shaving off in one direction or the plane skids off the top of the work piece like the blade isn't protruding at all. Sometimes it'll catch and take off a shaving, but once the work is nearing flat I'm back to nothing again. It won't touch knots and performance is poor on plywood.

This is with a plane that was working just great when sharpened using a honing guide.

Any ideas?

 

[Dangermouse]

Your not planning against the grain are you. other wise ask Jacob. :-"

 

[Jacob]

One way of diagnosing what's going on is to plane just the edge of a thin board say 10mm thick. Look down at the bade edge as you go and see how it's cutting, and work different parts of the blade on the board. And look at the board itself to see how it has been cut.
But ultimately it's down to practice practice!!

 

[Chrispy]

Can I ask what kind of angle have you ended up honing at, it could be that it's a bit steep ie. more than 35 degrees.

 

[MIGNAL]

Hard to diagnose but it sounds as though the blade isn't sharp enough or there is a problem with the Plane. If you plane in the 'wrong direction' you tend to get a lot of tearout, with the plane having a tendency to dig in.

 

[matthewwh]

Sharpness may not be the issue.

You would get similar symptoms if the sole is a touch concave or if the cap iron isn't seating properly and you are getting odd bits of trapped shaving wrapped over the cutting edge.

 

[Reggie]

distance of the blade tip to the chipbreaker can have a huge impact, mouth to blade distance. However, if it's not touching sometimes, it could be your approach with the height adjustment, try approaching the depth from one direction only (out), if you have to wind it back in, go over and then wind back out.

 

[wizard]

This is with a plane that was working just great when sharpened using a honing guide.

well use the honing guide, simples!

 

[matthewwh]

Hmmm, just re-read that bit.

Are you maybe lifting the blade too far as you pull back?

Have you tried going back to the guide to see if the issues cease?

 

[David C]

This is an almost perfect example of why honing guides are a good thing, for many people.

The angle is both known and repeatable.

Plane "was working just great" so there can't be much wrong with it. The problem almost certainly lies with the angle you are honing.

best wishes,
David

 

[Peter Sefton]

I would agree with the David, Mathew and Wizard above, although I am not sure why its works in one direction and not the other :?
Peter

 

[Jacob]

This is an almost perfect example of why honing guides are a good thing, for many people.

The angle is both known and repeatable.

Plane "was working just great" so there can't be much wrong with it. The problem almost certainly lies with the angle you are honing.

best wishes,
David

Angle is known and repeatable freehand too. Not many people know this!
It's obvious a few people simply can't do it, but that shouldn't put you off, it just takes a bit of practice but saves a huge amount of time and effort. A little and often is the key.
Never heard of cutting one way but not the other, but if sharpening is the issue it may be you aren't getting a burr across the whole width especially the middle. This is a common beginner's fault as plane blades tend to be more worn in the middle and if very blunt it takes some time to get them right again and people stop too soon. The result is an edge which is sharp in parts, which could account for your prob.

 

[matthewwh]

I think Jacob may have it, if you are using camber or working on board edges the mid section of the edge is doing all the work.

With a guide you will be used to a small number of sharpening strokes to hone through the edge, with freehanding there is less set up time but you are removing metal over a larger surface so you need to do more rubbing. Bear in mind that as part of the trade off you are also managing the 'primary bevel' part too - bit by bit.

If you try to slice into the edge of a piece of paper with the centre of the cutting edge do you get a nice clean cut?

 

[woodbrains]

Hello,

Wanting to hone freehand is fair enough, but I don't quite see why you think there is going to be a huge saving of time by not using a guide. You seem to think that honing little and often is some thing you can't / don't do with a guide, and it seems you have been waiting until your tools are insanely dull before you sharpen everything all at once in one mad sharpening session. If the tool is dull enough to need a sharpen then do it and use your guide, if this makes it easier to get the correct angle. It is easy, when freehand honing, to inadvertently raise the honing angle enough to leave no relief angle behind the blade, in a plane, and cause problems. Also, once a tool is dull, it can take more than a few quick swipes on the stone to 'refresh' the edge, as some people seem to think. If you do not remove metal past the wear bevel on the flat side, you have not sharpened enough. You may even raise a wire edge, but still have not removed enough metal to go beyond the wear and make the tool truly sharp

I sharpen both ways, for whatever suits my mood, more than anything else, but I have not found that using a jig wastes a lot of time. Quite often the tool requires less strokes on the stone, just because of the extra precision a jig introduces, so mitigating the initial set up somewhat. If using a jig takes away some of the doubts as to what angle you hone at, and avoid problems such as you are experiencing, then you are saving time in the long run. There is no shame in relying on a jig, just as there is no added value to freehand, there are just different ways of getting the tool sharp enough to do the work. If you can do this without questioning whether the tool is sharp, has the wear bevel gone, is the relief angle adequate, then you are achieving the goal; if not, use a method that takes the doubt away and get working wood!

Mike.

 

[Jacob]

.... It is easy, when freehand honing, to inadvertently raise the honing angle enough to leave no relief angle behind the blade, in a plane, and cause problems.

Even easier not to do this once you are aware of the possibility

Also, once a tool is dull, it can take more than a few quick swipes on the stone to 'refresh' the edge, as some people seem to think.

That's when you've left it too long

....There is no shame in relying on a jig, just as there is no added value to freehand,

Shame doesn't come into it - it's just quicker and easier and involves less kit

.... if not, use a method that takes the doubt .....

Not been invented yet!

 

[bugbear]

...but I have not found that using a jig wastes a lot of time. Quite often the tool requires less strokes on the stone, just because of the extra precision a jig introduces, so mitigating the initial set up somewhat.

Seconded. In the whole sequence of removing the blade from the plane, removing the cap iron, rubbing the blade on various grits, re-reassembling, the additional time (with the usual projection jig) of putting the blade in the guide is greatly out weighed by the time saved by only working on a tiny secondary bevel. This is particularly true on the finer (all bar the first) grits.

BugBear

 

[iNewbie]

.... It is easy, when freehand honing, to inadvertently raise the honing angle enough to leave no relief angle behind the blade, in a plane, and cause problems.

Even easier not to do this once you are aware of the possibility

Also, once a tool is dull, it can take more than a few quick swipes on the stone to 'refresh' the edge, as some people seem to think.

That's when you've left it too long

....There is no shame in relying on a jig, just as there is no added value to freehand,

Shame doesn't come into it - it's just quicker and easier and involves less kit

Its not about the tools, though...

 

[woodbrains]

Hello,

It is obviously Jacob,s raisin d'être these days to contradict everything that I say, even if there is no controversy, he will find some fictitious one. In all the years I have posted here, I have NEVER contended there was any problem with freehand honing per se, but always seem to be argued with as though I am some sort of jig crusader. Not so, it would be foolish to decry freehand honing, as I say repeatedly, I often do it.

But I have observed that, during freehand honing, once in every while due to the randomness of life or human physiological frailty, it happens that you just happen to rock the tool on the stone a bit and dub over the 'almost there' edge and essentially negate the last dozen strokes and have to re-do them. Jig not such a waste of time there. It would have removed the doubt, yes it has been invented, within reasonable tolerances.

Also, it is only human nature to work the very tip a bit more, after all, this is where the sharpening occurs, it wouldn't hurt if we put a bit more weight there, would it? Perhaps not the first hone, it might just add a few degrees more, but the second time, although we won't measure it, the bevel might now be 36 degrees and the relief angle is too small to plane effectively, leading to puzzlement. The edge is sharp, after all, but the plane won't work.

Also, once a tool is dull, it can take more than a few quick swipes on the stone to 'refresh' the edge, as some people seem to think.

That's when you've left it too long

No, when a tool is dull enough to need sharpening it will have some degree of wear bevel (axiomatically) which will need removing to attain sharpness. I am not in the habit of sharpening tools that are still sharp, what is the point of 'refreshing' the edge of a still sharp tool?

Mike.

 

[Jacob]

it happens that you just happen to rock the tool on the stone a bit and dub over the 'almost there' edge and essentially negate the last dozen strokes and have to re-do them.

Easier to train yourself out of this bad habit rather than investing in 100 quids worth of gear. Not a disaster anyway if you just do it once or twice but a habit to be avoided,

...... I am not in the habit of sharpening tools that are still sharp, what is the point of 'refreshing' the edge of a still sharp tool?

Mike.

Non at all, but there is every point in refreshing even a lightly used edge in order to keep it sharp and avoid having to do a major job on it which would also interrupt the work. It's a bit like sharpening a pencil whilst you are drawing, and about as difficult if you do it a little and often.

 

[Reggie]

100s of quids for a honing guide? Where are they from, cartier?

£9 in b&q.