Painting over rust?

[Beanwood]

My front door ws replaced two years ago with a fairly expensive (IMHO) accoya door.

It has vertical slats in the bottom half, which have plainly been held in with pins. I say obviously not because I can see the pins, but I can clearly see rust marks bleeding through the paint where pins would be. It was filled and painted (Sadolin Superdec, so not cheap paint either ) but after 18 months the first rust runs started to appear.

I compained ot the door maker who stated they only use stainless pins, so can't understand how it's happened - but has since gone quiet when it comes to resolvng te issue...

So - to my problem - how does one treat rust on metal pins that can't be seen? Does normal rust converter adversely affect wood and/or paint?
Is there somethng I should paint over it with?

All advice gratefully accepted.

 

[RogerS]

I think the answer is 'nothing', I'm afraid. Why should you be going through this hassle? It's faulty. Either they fix it or it's the Small Claims Court.

 

[AJB Temple]

Even stainless steel can rust. Marine and salt resistant grades less so. Did the maker of the door also paint it? If not, then litigation on an exterior door is a no go. On a 2 year old door, unlike to be viable anyway.

Clean off. Get it dry. Apply a metal suitable primer in risk areas. Re-paint.

This page is quite good: Paint defects - Brewers Know How - the decorating knowledge and advice you need

 

[marcros]

were the fixings stainless? accoya and standard steel fixings is a potential issue far worse than rust spots showing.

 

[Trevanion]

When the timber is dearer than prime grade oak it is going to be an expensive door.

Do you have any of those little rare earth magnets? Try one over the pin holes and if there is magnetism the pins aren’t stainless, the pins I use are completely non-magnetic stainless and I’ve never had any issues with rust in Accoya even on the seafront.

I’m not really sure I can offer any actual advice on sorting it though, I reckon the rust will bleed through no matter what you put on it. I’d try approaching the company about it again gently, if you go in raving mad and threatening small claims court you’ll urinate on your chips, never get it fixed and it’ll end up more hassle than it’s worth.

 

[AJB Temple]

This has all the hallmarks of someone who has told the supplier that he is going to rubbish them on the internet. I say this based on the comments on the image feed where clearly there is a negative dialogue. We know one side of the story only.

 

[Beanwood]

This has all the hallmarks of someone who has told the supplier that he is going to rubbish them on the internet. I say this based on the comments on the image feed where clearly there is a negative dialogue. We know one side of the story only.

What are you on about?
What image feed?
Have I been anything but polite?
Why would I bother trying to 'rubbish' someone local to me none of you would ever meet?
I'm just trying to put right a problem that shouldn't have happened.

 

[Beanwood]

In response to others - yes he provided it painted, but I won't be bothering trying to sue him. Life is too short, and I don't need the stress. I just want a method of fixing it - either for me, or for him. I just don't know how either he, or I, woud do it.

Funny thing is, we actually wanted oak, but he was really insistent Accoya was the better thing, far more stable etc. I should have stuck to my guns - the oak back door he did has aged much better. Mind you, the 12 accoya windows and the french doors are all OK also......

I don't want to cause a fuss, just want to find the best way of resolving the paint finish. I'll probably just end up calling in a professional decorator.

Thanks anyway.

 

[sometimewoodworker]

Do you have any of those little rare earth magnets? Try one over the pin holes and if there is magnetism the pins aren’t stainless,

I’m not really sure I can offer any actual advice on sorting it though, I reckon the rust will bleed through no matter what you put on it.

Sorry to say neither statement is true. There are many grades of stainless steel some are completely unaffected by magnets, some mildly, others strongly. So while the pins being uneffected is a good indication, pins being attracted by magnets is not an absolute diagnosis of not being stainless.

As to stopping the rust bleed through paint there are various ways to reduce/prevent it. First would be replacement, if that’s not possible getting some zinc in contact will reduce or stop rust developing, using a coat of hammerite over the area as an undercoat and/or shellac which is very likely to reduce transmission. None of the above are either simple or fast, but they will help or cure the problem.

 

[Cabinetman]

Without a picture it’s difficult to recommend what to do, but is it possible to punch the pins a bit further into the wood? Then obviously fill and paint. Ian

 

[Trevanion]

Sorry to say neither statement is true. There are many grades of stainless steel some are completely unaffected by magnets, some mildly, others strongly. So while the pins being uneffected is a good indication, pins being attracted by magnets is not an absolute diagnosis of not being stainless.

As to stopping the rust bleed through paint there are various ways to reduce/prevent it. First would be replacement, if that’s not possible getting some zinc in contact will reduce or stop rust developing, using a coat of hammerite over the area as an undercoat and/or shellac which is very likely to reduce transmission. None of the above are either simple or fast, but they will help or cure the problem.

I know enough about the various grades of stainless but there are only like three or so manufacturers of stainless steel pins for a pin gun, none of them are magnetic from experience. It was only suggested as a test as galvanised pins would have very high magnetism comparatively.

I didn’t want to suggest putting any coating underneath because I have no idea how the Sadolin would react to say Hammerite, it might be fine it it might just bubble and peel straight off.

 

[Doug71]

An old hall I am currently working at has the same problem. They had some external doors made in Accoya, proper top quality joinery, to be honest the finish on them is so good they almost look plastic which doesn't suit the old place. The owner asked my opinion on the little brown dots that were showing up on the glazing beads, I tutted shaking my head as all tradesmen do telling him how they should have used stainless pins in Accoya. The firm came back, punched the nails deeper, filled the holes and repainted. They said they always use stainless pins and showed him some boxes of them and receipts etc to prove it. I am working there this afternoon so will ask what else was said.

 

[Droogs]

You could try tapping the pins deeper and using a 8mm forstner bit to give you a plug area and then fill with araldite. sand prime and repaint

 

[RogerS]

Would Zinsser Cover Stain work ? or knotting ?

 

[sometimewoodworker]

I didn’t want to suggest putting any coating underneath because I have no idea how the Sadolin would react to say Hammerite, it might be fine it it might just bubble and peel straight off.

For that exact reason you should use shellac over the Hammerite or any other kind of materials used, as shellac goes over anything and everything goes over it. Though you should give enough time for all solvents to throughly go, for shellac it can be up to a week depending on environment, Hammerite will be shorter due to the solvents used.

 

[sometimewoodworker]

Would Zinsser Cover Stain work ? or knotting ?

They are both shellac based AFIK,

 

[RogerS]

They are both shellac based AFIK,

I think you might be getting confused bedtween Cover Stain - which is oil based - and BIN Shellac.

Knotting is, as you rightly point out, shellac based.