Reviving Denford Viceroy

[grahame]

Hello people,
When Covid started I decided It was a good time to scratch the itch and finally get my first and last lathe! I’m only interested in bowls etc and short Graduates are rare and seem to go for big money. So two years later I’ve finally got a Viceroy TDS6. Paid £500 for that + Record BS250 delivered.

It arrived on Sunday. The seller did not seem to know much about it but it’s an ex-school machine and seems to have had a fairly gentle life. Thanks to Farmer Giles here and a restoration thread on the Denford forum I had some idea how to get started and spent most of yesterday taking it to bits. Unexpectedly the cabinet was welded to the base so everything had to come through the door.

Now the questions……

I knew chuck options were limited but I had to Google Burnerd and I’m not sure this chuck will be user friendly. I want to keep the chuck as close to the bearing as possible. I had previously discussed with Ian – flh801978 on here- the possibility of machining the spindle to 33mm but now I see one in the flesh I’m not sure there’s enough metal with the 3MT socket. Axminster no longer supply the SK114 @ 1.5" x 8tpi. Is it feasible/ sensible to buy one anyway and bore/tap it out?

I will get the kit from Newton Tesla for VFD as the motor is 1hp and seems fairly new. The belt rivets are rusted/oxidized and I chopped them out. Is this - PowerTwist Plus A/13/4L High Performance Composite V-Belt 13mm Width Simply Bearings Ltd a good replacement? I don’t want to take out the spindle and intermediate shaft if I don’t have to.

Finally - for tonight at least - the paint is in reasonable shape – just needs a bit of filler and rubbing down. I assume this is the original colour and I would like to keep that. Does it have a name/RAL number?

Any and all info and advice gratefully received.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

The chuck is out of stock atm, but you could get backplates machined with your thread. They are a good chuck and give options of jaws if you go the Axminster/Versachuck route.


https://www.beaufortink.co.uk/toolp...rsachuck-wood-lathe-chuck-threaded-backplates

 

[clogs]

just as long as the belt is a named brand ur ok....PIRRELI etc....
The Chinese belts are ok but not if they are diff to get at.....
Bernerd chuck's are great.....have em my metalwork lathes....
Nice to see I'm not the only one with a car lift.....
and the shelving is a bit like mine as well.....I must do better....
as for the paint, go to an auto paint store they will match it in what ever paint u want....
I tend to use coach enamal.....with a tad of hardener if u can get it now....
nice little machine by the way....

 

[Sideways]

This thread mentions RAL5009 for a different Denford lathe.
https://denfordata.com/bb//viewtopic.php?t=4110Read down and decide if you think it's the same. I wouldn't expect lathes from one mfr to have different colours unless the client chose it when buying several.
Tractol enamel will see you right.

Burnerd are a good metalworking chuck. They hold their value used.
The popular woodturning chucks were derived from metalworking chucks but lightened and made as 4 jaw scroll chucks for better grip.
OK, this lacks the range of specialist jaws available for a wood chuck but could get you started.

Backplates in 1.5" 8tpi are available from time to time on ebay so don't hurry to change the spindle. Remember that the thread only holds the chuck onto the spindle. The precision fit comes from the smooth, straight part of the shaft behind it. The chuck must have a perfectly matching bore and pull tight onto square shoulders. Having the same quoted thread doesn't guarantee perfect fit so don't gamble a lot of money on a chuck or backplate without right to return if it doesn't fit.

 

[grahame]

The chuck is out of stock atm, but you could get backplates machined with your thread. They are a good chuck and give options of jaws if you go the Axminster/Versachuck route.


https://www.beaufortink.co.uk/toolp...rsachuck-wood-lathe-chuck-threaded-backplates

Thanks Phil
I'm beginning to think that's the easiest option. Maybe cannabilise the backplate from the Burnerd, or there's a cast iron blank backplate on Amazon or get the SK114 from Axminster with a smaller spindle bore and get it bored out/threaded bigger.

 

[grahame]

just as long as the belt is a named brand ur ok....PIRRELI etc....
The Chinese belts are ok but not if they are diff to get at.....
Bernerd chuck's are great.....have em my metalwork lathes....
Nice to see I'm not the only one with a car lift.....
and the shelving is a bit like mine as well.....I must do better....
as for the paint, go to an auto paint store they will match it in what ever paint u want....
I tend to use coach enamal.....with a tad of hardener if u can get it now....
nice little machine by the way....

Thanks clogs
The belt I had in mind is ultimately Michelin so maybe OK.
My 30 year old Audi is also glad of the lift .... fortunately not needed too often.
My paint skills extend as far as a 3" brush I was planning on Paragon machine enamel

 

[grahame]

This thread mentions RAL5009 for a different Denford lathe.
https://denfordata.com/bb//viewtopic.php?t=4110Read down and decide if you think it's the same. I wouldn't expect lathes from one mfr to have different colours unless the client chose it when buying several.
Tractol enamel will see you right.

Burnerd are a good metalworking chuck. They hold their value used.
The popular woodturning chucks were derived from metalworking chucks but lightened and made as 4 jaw scroll chucks for better grip.
OK, this lacks the range of specialist jaws available for a wood chuck but could get you started.

Backplates in 1.5" 8tpi are available from time to time on ebay so don't hurry to change the spindle. Remember that the thread only holds the chuck onto the spindle. The precision fit comes from the smooth, straight part of the shaft behind it. The chuck must have a perfectly matching bore and pull tight onto square shoulders. Having the same quoted thread doesn't guarantee perfect fit so don't gamble a lot of money on a chuck or backplate without right to return if it doesn't fit.

Thanks Sideways
I think you're probably right about the colour but I've asked on the Denford forum. It's not a big issue but I'd like to keep it original if possible.
I might try to sell on the chuck as is unless I really need to recycle the backplate. I'm waiting for a response from Axminster re machining their chuck - though I expect they will raise warranty issues - then ask Ian on here for his advice - spindle vs chuck and steel vs stainless vs cast iron.

 

[flh801978]

I would always rather have a chuck that fits directly on the spindle rather than having an excert type adapter
I have machined many spindles down to m33 x 3.5mm making chucks and accesories easy to get ( and easier to resell)
Can you post a good close up of your spindle thread?
I’m not aware of any new available chucks for 1.5” 8tpi or inserts
I do make many uncommon thread inserts for record sc4 or1 chucks but cant go to 1.5” for those

Ian

 

[grahame]

Here's the inboard thread

Here's the other

I'll have to dress the Stilson tooth marks to get the bearings off but if you can make the hole circular again I can modify the locking lever to suit.
I'll be really pleased if you can get this to 33x3.5mm.

 

[grahame]

Some progress ... the day after I took the spindle out to send to Ian..... an SK114 chuck @ 1 1/2" x 8tpi appeared on eBay - mine for £155
So I can leave the spindle as is but replace the bearings and belt seeing as it's out
I've now got the new bearings and v-belts for the spindle and intermediate shaft.
I've read Farmer Giles thread over and over and still can't get my head round how to install the new bearings
My local garage man has a press and said could do this for me so I took all the bits in.
Now he says I can come in tomorrow and we will "have a go" together.
This does not fill me with confidence
Could someone here could describe the process step by step ..... as silly person-proof as possible

 

[grahame]

Finally some time to catch up with this …. needless worry about the bearings …. all installed with no problems. Opal Green from paragon was not as bluish as I’d hoped but it went on anyway! The inverter and control panel from Newton Tesla arrived and all worked fine with the old 1hp motor on the bench.

Started to put it all together again and head scratching time…

I put the control panel where there was already a hole in the cabinet but now I’m thinking it might be handier and safer with a magnet and parked where the black maker’s plate is.

The bottom belt is not aligned with the pulleys. The intermediate shaft is as far as possible to the right. It was a struggle to get the motor bolted to the platform so I’m not keen to take it off and have a look. As far as I can remember there’s hardly any leeway in the holes nor between the platform and the lugs in the base. Will there be a lot of noise and wear if I just run as is?

 

[Phil Pascoe]

If you worry about safety, you can run the power in through switched cable outlets elsewhere on the cabinet. I have two on mine, one in the middle I can reach when the headstock is turned and one on the end I can reach when long hole boring. You can see the end one, and just about the one in the middle. (Yes, I know it's not an ideal place for a tool rack, but I have to work seated so can't reach anywhere.)