New Irwin Record Handplanes

[markh]

Treated myself for Christmas to a No.7 and No.5 Irwin Record. Wish I hadn't bothered!!!

I know, you are all shouting "told you so!"

Well, I thought £180 was a reasonable price to pay for a couple of reasonable quality handplanes to expand the collection. Big mistake. The enamel was poor (and chipped around the edges), the handles were lacquered by a three year old with a trowel and the yoke is made from Tesco's value cheddar......... Oh, and the cam action has vanished from the yoke to be replaced by a cheap brass screw to complete the picture of cheap and nastiness!

I spent some time searching Ebay for a nice second hand No 7 or 8, bid on a couple but didn't dig deep enough into my pocket before weakening and selling my soul to the devil........

I now have a dilemma: after I have returned the offending items for a full refund do I,

1. Spend even less money on some Anant planes from Rutlands? (Can't be any worse, can they?)
2. Go mad and spend more than double the money on a couple of Cliftons
3. Be patient a keep searching on Flea bay. This is a bit more risky as it is difficult to tell how old they are unless you are an expert (I recognise good tools but I am not knowledgable enough to spot the gems from small photos on t'internet!) and there is alot of luck involved...

Any advice from seasoned pros will be welcome but please spare me the abuse for straying from the path of enlightenment!

Cheers,

Markh

 

[mickthetree]

Mark

Sorry to hear your bad experience.

I havent used one but heard very good things about the Quangsheng planes and in particular the number 6. Have a look over on workshopheaven.

This will flatten panels, joint an edge and perform most of the takes one would require.

Most of my planes are from ebay and I've been lucky. My main plain is a record number 8 with a clifton blade and find it great for so many tasks. However, I have just picked up a record 5 1/2 which is going to take a fair bit of work to take the concavity out of the sole. But it was cheap. You pays yer money....

Take a look at the Quangsheng.

 

[Alf]

Ah well, Markh, every day's a learning day - and you might have got lucky. At least you can send them back and have a second try.

I now have a dilemma: after I have returned the offending items for a full refund do I,

1. Spend even less money on some Anant planes from Rutlands? (Can't be any worse, can they?)

Um... Wanna bet? A better option would be the Quangsheng/Qiangsheng variety, which are really very good. Unfortunately no No.7 though. Heck, if there was, I'd probably have bought one by now, but only 'cos the L-N #7 keeps getting further and further out of my reach (gone up another £20 *sob* ).

2. Go mad and spend more than double the money on a couple of Cliftons.

Well is it madness? I bet you'll still be thanking yourself for buying a good tool long, long after you've forgotten the pain of the cost.

3. Be patient a keep searching on Flea bay. This is a bit more risky as it is difficult to tell how old they are unless you are an expert (I recognise good tools but I am not knowledgable enough to spot the gems from small photos on t'internet!) and there is alot of luck involved...

I'll leave the Ebay-savvy to this one. Personally I wouldn't buy a secondhand plane off Ebay, however much a bargain. 'ticularly a jointer, where it's going to save a whole heap of trouble if you can at least start with a flatish sole. And there's also the thought that you might want to upgrade the iron and possibly the cap iron as well. That can add up (see the other thread running at the moment) so you might want to factor that in.

Assuming you're intending to use the jack as a jack (rougher work) and the jointer as a jointer (edge jointing, shooting possibly, finer levelling work) then I'd be tempted to throw some good money at the jointer and get something cheaper in the jack. Cliffie for the former and maybe take the s/h punt on the jack, f'rinstance.

Cheers, Alf

 

[Fromey]

From what I've heard, because of the role of a jointer, the sole really does need to be flat. Thus, anything from eBay has associated risks of not being flat, and with such a long sole, it will be a complete proverbial to flatten one. Thus, I would suggest looking only at a new and reputable brand plane. I too want Quangsheng to produce a No. 7 and wonder if the No. 6 would suffice (Chris Schwarz claims that a true jointing plane starts at 22" long). I've not heard anything good about the Anant planes.

If you were to go second hand, how about Old Tools, who at least review each plane;

http://www.oldtools.co.uk/

As an aside, it's interesting to me that only the expensive brands (Irwin/Record excepted) seem to be making No. 7 or 8 planes. I wonder if this is something to do with the inherent requirement and difficulty in getting a flat sole.

 

[Modernist]

I take it you havn't noticed my Quangsheng No 6 in the for sale area :?:

 

[Trizza]

I'll add another vote for the QS planes - I use my QS No. 6 as both a long jack and a short jointer, and it does a great job. Most of my work is small enough though that I don't really need a full sized jointer. I do wish they'd do a No. 7 or No. 8!

 

[Fromey]

Not to derail the topic, but for what length wood would it be appropriate to use a No. 6 as a jointer? At what length of work do you really need to go up to a No. 7?

 

[markh]

Wow! Lots of replies already - thanks for your interest.

I was moving round to the idea of a Clifton jointer and a cheaper Jack plane.

I found a new Clifton No.7 for £255 from Toolnut.co.uk and someone is selling a Record No.5 new (yes, like the one I am sending back.......) for 20 quid on ebay.

I will have a look at Quangsheng - never heard of them before but you guys seem to rate them quite highly.

Good advice re jointer planes needing to be flat. Funnily enough that is about the only good thing I have to say about the Irwin Record. The quality of the main casting seems good and flat so maybe it is a starting point to build something up from decent spares?

Anyway, I will still be sending them back because I shouldn't need to rebuild a new tool that costs £120 from a supposedly reputable manufacturer.

On the subject of ebay, have a look at item number 250750480703. Looks promising to me and as someone mentioned in a different thread, real men use a No.8!!

Does anyone have any bad things to report about Clifton? I like the idea of buying a good old fashioned hand tool made in Sheffield and I am dangerously close to taking the plunge!

 

[mickthetree]

personally, I would spend the extra £18 and get it from workshop heaven. Or ask him if he can do anything on the price. I havent any experience from toolnut and they may be perfectly good, but matthews service is second to none and I'd always rather order from him.

If you are thinking about getting the cliffy then you wont ever be disappointed with it.


.......shove....... 8)

 

[markh]

Just checked out Brian's Quangsheng No.6 - looks lovely!

I am erring towards a 7 or 8 for jointing longer boards but if anyone else is wanting a number 6 plane go and have a look - it is immaculate!

 

[Modernist]

Just checked out Brian's Quangsheng No.6 - looks lovely!

I am erring towards a 7 or 8 for jointing longer boards but if anyone else is wanting a number 6 plane go and have a look - it is immaculate!

Thanks for that! I already have an 7 and 8 which is why I am selling it. If Quangsheng did a 5 1/2 I'd be in the market for one of those too.

Personally I'm not a great fan of Clifton although I am sure they are a fine plane and I realise I am in a small minority. The Lie Neilsen No 8 is a great plane if you can afford it. (I can't BTW mines a Record with corrugated sole!! )

Good luck in your quest.

 

[Alf]

Not to derail the topic, but for what length wood would it be appropriate to use a No. 6 as a jointer? At what length of work do you really need to go up to a No. 7?

Around the 4ft mark floats into my mind for some reason. What's that in metric? 1240mm? Which, if you think about it, is more than adequate for an awful lot of furniture building.

Dunno why it is that I have this mental block on the #6 really; I mean if real men (Hah!) use a #8 then elegant ladies such as wot I am (Hah! again ) should probably be delicately wielding a #6 rather than a #7... :lol:

 

[kirkpoore1]

You could get on Patrick Leach's mailing list and wait for something to show up. I haven't been on it for some time, but IIRC #5's showed up frequently and #7's weren't rare. Of course, I realize payment will be more of a hassle, but you can probably count on getting what you pay for.

http://www.supertool.com/oldtools.htm

Kirk
who paid about $100 for a new Record #7 in ~1990 and is sorry to hear that they've gone in the toilet...

 

[János]

Hello,

The size of your plane depends on the size of you. A large jointer (No.7 or 8) is heavy, so if you are small, it will be tiresome to use. A jack can be used to shoot and joint edges, just be more careful, and use your straightedge more frequently. I am not a tall person, and not a muscle-man, so I prefer my no.5 and my wooden try planes over my cast iron No.7. Japanese carpenters have no jointer planes at all, but that have not kept them from building pagodas 30 metres high.

By,

János

 

[János]

Surprise: a number eight and a parenthesis turned into an emoticon automatically…

 

[markh]

Being somewhere between a real man and a delicate lady :wink: , a No.7 should suit me fine!

That Cliffy is still batting her eyelids at me........................

 

[mtr1]

I bought a no4 and a low angle block(from the same stable) recently, and the no 4 is dung(OK for site). The block has been all right so far though.

 

[uk woodman]

Quangsheng bench planes are very good, I dont just mean good value, they are excellent in their own right and not as expensive as the Clifton planes, from workshopheaven The Q/S V4 planes bedrock pattern are really good, I don't think they do a number 7 though, still a good 6 is better than a bad 7.

 

[Vann]

That Cliffy is still batting her eyelids at me........................

Go on man, buy the Cliffie No.7.

Beautiful O1 steel in the iron. I'm the proud owner of a No.3 and a No.4.5, and a 2" iron to go into a Record 04. Oh, and a Clifton 2-piece cap-iron for my Record 08.

Cheers (and a bit of grease for the slope...), Vann.

 

[lanemaux]

Mark , I know that buying new is great these days if buying high end. I have also heard nice things about the Quangsheng line. For me though , the fun is in the finding and fettling. By all means get something nice to work with from manufacturer of your choice. But do keep an eye out for fixer-uppers later ,as having a spare of any size to reach for when the edge starts to go off of your primary user is a good thing too. Number 7's and 8's are less common than the jacks and smoothers but still findable. And besides , it is fun to use something you have breathed life back into in it's own right. My own number 7 was a bit of a horror show when it arrived from an E-bay seller in Alberta, not altogether flat , rust ,etc. , and yet it now enjoys pride of place on the plane shelf. It took work and sweat as well as fair amount of coarse abrasives on granite backing but all is sorted now , and I could not be happier with it.