Newbie with a Table Saw dilemma

[kmp]

Hi, my first post so please forgive me if the terminology is incorrect. While a complete newbie with wood I have for many years mangled metal with various levels of success. A recent journey into some DIY cupboard and bench making has stirred my interest and I am looking to upgrade some of my DIY type equipment to take on some rather more challenging (for me) projects. I would like to make some simple furniture pieces, chests, small tables and desks etc using veneer plywoods and frames in solid woods.

While I have used my 10” Clarke table saw I have been frustrated by its’ lack of accuracy (repeatability really) and flexible table and fence. I have been looking for something more substantial but with my lack of experience have found the choice to be confusing. As I am retired I can’t take the 20 year route I did with metal working lathes so any thoughts you might have would be much appreciated.

I don’t have a huge shop about 5m x 6m so size is restricted somewhat. Cost is also a factor and I would rather be able to use it rather than spend time rebuilding or searching for spares. The list I have at the moment includes the SIP 01332 (or similar), Charnwood W650 or the W619, the Scheppach TS2010 and the Axminster TS200. For some reason I have not taken to the smaller Record range but can’t really explain why. So my dilemma seems to revolve round a couple of basic questions that I don’t have the experience to answer.

For the type of work described do I need a 10” saw or will an 8” be suitable?

Do I need or will I find it easier to use a saw with a sliding table?

I seem to be leaning towards a cast iron top with an induction motor, is this logical?

Trying to balance cost, space and capability I seem to be heading towards the Charnwood W650 but despite reading everything I can find on this forum and having looked at several examples I am not impressed with the steel extension tables and the fence seems a bit rough to move. If the 8” will do the job could I save money with the W619 as I can find very little with regard to user experiences with this saw.

Sorry for the long post but any advice you have would be much appreciated. Thanks in advance.

Best regards

Keith

 

[Steve Maskery]

An 8" saw will give you a maximum 2" depth of cut, so bear that in mind.
I and many others have the Xcalibur from Woodford, but it is more expensive than those you list. Fantastic saw, though.
If you are prepared to accept an 8", Axi's TS200 is generally well-thought-of, for its price.
S

 

[rdesign]

the sliding table will allow you do the work of a chopsaw and a Crosscut saw! the machines you mentioned I have the sip 01332 bought it second hand with all the extras for 500 euros. look around on the used market. if you want to cut sheet goods I bought a festool ts55 as the table saws arn't really able to handle sheet goods safely in a one man workshop.

Good luck with the hobby! I'm taking the 20 year route but nearly their after about 2 serious years.

 

[kmp]

Steve, many thanks for your comments always helpful to get new insights into the possibilities. The Xcalibur seems ideal apart from a reservation over the price. I have no doubt the saw is well worth the investment but my issue is if I am ever going to make full use of such a capable machine. The 8" idea was to see if my interest develops into a passion before spending lots of money but I have no real idea if the 2" cut will be a major frustration during my first steps. I suppose "know thyself" springs to mind here and I have to heed my wifes' advice to "buy a proper machine" whatever that is. I guess she knows me better than most.

Rdesign, many thanks for your advice and guidance. I seem to use my sliding mitre saw a great deal and have become frustrated at its' limited capacity so I guess the sliding table would be a great help there. I like the cost/quality balance of the SIP but am a little uncertain about the size in my limited space, particularly if I eventually decided a sliding table was needed for it. I have been looking at the second hand market but so far with no luck, all the good deals seem to be at the other end of the country or are machines that I have never heard of. My luck is shown by the fact that I tried to send a PM on this forum about a Fox that would seem ideal for me but didn't have the 3 posts required so seem to have missed it. I'm pleased to hear that your 20 year path is being compressed, well done. Your comments on handling large sheets of plywood are also apt as at the moment, for me, cutting them results in quiet times after I've shouted at the wife when she is trying to help.

Best regards

Keith

 

[Bale]

Keith, I have some experience which you may find useful.

I owned an 8" TS2000 Sheppach saw for some years. It was good for light work, but I often found it a little undersized. I was making mainly boxes and small cabinets, but would have liked something a bit bigger for items of furniture. It had one design fault of note. The rise and fall mechanism used to fill up with sawdust until it was impossible to retract the blade fully into the table. The only way to sort this was to take off the table, turn the machine upside down and poke bits of wire into its deepest recesses. I don't know if the TS2010 suffers from the same problem, but I suspect it may do.

A sliding table is a real boon and I wouldn't buy a table saw without one. A cast iron table and an induction motor are now two more must-haves in my book.

My current saw is a Charnwood W650. What I was after was value for money and I reckon I got it, but there are some drawbacks. If your metalwork extends to Model Engineering, you may be familiar with the approach that regards a Far-Eastern machine as a kit of parts, and you may be wise to look at the Charnwood in the same way. There is a certain flatpack element involved when it arrives but the instructions are straightforward and it went together OK. Mine works fine and pretty much does what I want it to do. The riving knife as supplied was bent, off-centre and stood higher than the top of the saw blade, making it impossible to use jigs for cutting tenons, for instance. I've chopped 15mm of the top of it and recut the slot for the guard, which would probably not be beyond your capabilities, and I'm happy to sort that sort of thing out for myself.. The fence needed shimming with veneer to get it vertical and parallel to the blade and it appears sticky moving it from side to side, but to sort that is just a matter of pushing it at the right point. Once you have the knack, that's not a problem. As I'm using the saw and gradually fine-tuning it, I'm pretty sure the motor is slightly off-axis, but I haven't had a look at that yet. The saw does work, it's just a matter of getting the best out of it. Definitely better having the 10" blade over the 8". The pressed steel extension tables look a bit flimsy but work fine. If you have experience of machinery you should be OK.

HTH

Pete

 

[rdesign]

"I like the cost/quality balance of the SIP but am a little uncertain about the size in my limited space, particularly if I eventually decided a sliding table was needed for it"
can't figure out the quote boxes :/

In america at the moment but my saw takes up roughly 6 feet wide and 7 feet long which is big. I hate a cross cut fense that goes behind the stock and not infront of it like the big panel saws. I really only need 75 cm cross cut capacity with my slider so now the rail isn't in the way when using the saw. and sticks out 3 and a half feet passed the saw this allows me still in the making to build a outfeed table router table! the major bonus of this is the sliding carriage on ur router table is great for making tennons and so much more. if your tight for space u can put the saw and other tables near it on one base on casters to allow a bit more room. I decided my saw has to be fixed and bolted it to the ground it dominates my 28 x 14 foot workshop but is way more useful than the stupid 8 foot by 4 foot bench i used to have that ended up being a magnet for crap much happier with my 5 foot x 2 foot bench with floor space

wish u the best of look and saw the fox saw on this but thought Wales was too far away.

 

[kmp]

Thanks guys some excellent advice there.

Pete, thanks very much for your post "right on the money" as they say. I own up, you have flushed me out, I am indeed a model engineer so your "kit of parts" makes total sense to me. I have a mix of old iron and new import machines and have found that both routes require a bit of fettling to get what you want. I have no issue with modern import machines other than one must pick an importer carefully to have the best chance of getting a good one, buying purely on price seems very risky in my experience. Your comments on 8" saws are very helpful to me as is your experience with the Charnwood W650 where you have certainly helped with many of my concerns. It seems to have what I need and be the right size for my limited space, like you I am happy to sort out a few issues and tune the machine to my needs. I had thought initially that the sliding table might have been "nice to have" but those who have one seem to use them a lot so I will need to add that to the list as well. So my search seems to have reduced to two candidates, the W650 with sliding table or the basic SIP, Axminster, Itech type clone without. Thanks again Pete for your advice, very helpful and much appreciated.

Rdesign, Thanks again for your help and hope you are in one of the cooler spots in America. With you also supporting the sliding table my dilemma now it seems comes down to size (and cost of course). As I am home for a few days I will get out with the tape measure and see it I could fit one in. Interesting comment about benches as thinking about it I have one if not two in there that seem to be used mainly as shelving for various junk so maybe I could be a bit more radical. To an extent I can't get over that cost/quality balance issue particularly as the basic SIP without sliding table is almost the same cost as the Charnwood with. The possibility of adding the table later seems a fairly high cost option though. Thanks again, much appreciated and hope you enjoy America.

Best regards

Keith