Marking Gauges - suggestions

[Cheshirechappie]

On wheel-type marking gauges, I only own one, and I have to admit to not really getting on with it*, so I'd probably listen to others more than me on this one; however, my understanding is that the idea of the wheel is that it rotates over any changes of grain, and thus doesn't follow them. Thus, they work better with one firm pass - but still pay attention to keeping the fence in contact with the job's reference face.

*The wheel keeps coming loose on mine, no matter what I do with the screw. Thus, the cutting edge (well, periphery) can wander a bit, giving inaccuracy. I won't name the maker.

 

[Derek Cohen (Perth Oz)]

Hi Petey

Multiple strokes is a basic, fundamental method in using all gauges - wheel, knife and pin. Trying to make a do-it-all-in-one-stroke line will likely follow the grain and be inaccurate. Further, with dovetails, for example, one might make a light pass, and then only deepen the lines where you wish to remove waste. Lines that are too deep show up later (I do not like to leave lines behind, if I can avoid it), and deeper lines are also wider than shallow lines, which means that accuracy is lost. Bottom line (sic), light strokes until you reach the level you need.

This information does not help you choose a better gauge, only helps you use whatever gauge you have better.

Regards from Perth

Derek

 

[Racers]

Marking gauges, three bits of wood and a bit of steel, make your own I did.

Marking gauges by Racers, on Flickr

Then you can adapt them for other uses.

7th November by Racers, on Flickr

I am about to start on another batch!

Pete

 

[Cheshirechappie]

Hi Petey

Multiple strokes is a basic, fundamental method in using all gauges - wheel, knife and pin. Trying to make a do-it-all-in-one-stroke line will likely follow the grain and be inaccurate. Further, with dovetails, for example, one might make a light pass, and then only deepen the lines where you wish to remove waste. Lines that are too deep show up later (I do not like to leave lines behind, if I can avoid it), and deeper lines are also wider than shallow lines, which means that accuracy is lost. Bottom line (sic), light strokes until you reach the level you need.

This information does not help you choose a better gauge, only helps you use whatever gauge you have better.

Regards from Perth

Derek

Well - there ya go! I'm flat wrong on wheel marking gauge technique, so disregard my last post!

 

[Derek Cohen (Perth Oz)]

On wheel-type marking gauges, I only own one, and I have to admit to not really getting on with it*, so I'd probably listen to others more than me on this one; however, my understanding is that the idea of the wheel is that it rotates over any changes of grain, and thus doesn't follow them. Thus, they work better with one firm pass - but still pay attention to keeping the fence in contact with the job's reference face.

*The wheel keeps coming loose on mine, no matter what I do with the screw. Thus, the cutting edge (well, periphery) can wander a bit, giving inaccuracy. I won't name the maker.

This does not sound right. What gauge do you have? Perhaps the screw can be replaced.

The wheel is not meant to rotate. It is simply a continuous cutter. In use, the section that is in contact with the wood acts like a knife. Hence, a wheel gauge is also a cutting gauge.

Here are a two other wheel gauges: the stainless steel ones on the right were a limited anniversary edition sold by Lee Valley. Absolute bargain at the time (really cheap!) - about 4 or 5 years ago. The variable head may be rotated as needed.

The one on the left I made. It has a wider fence and an ergonomic grip I like ...

Regards from Perth

Derek

 

[bugbear]

...deeper lines are also wider than shallow lines, which means that accuracy is lost.

(this is a side issue to the main thread, but accuracy is not lost by a wide line if (and only if) the cutter
has one face vertical, and this face defines the line marked.

BugBear

 

[Derek Cohen (Perth Oz)]

I agree, BB.

Regards from Perth

Derek

 

[D_W]

Petey - show us how you're gripping your gauge - the one you're mentioning having trouble with keeping steady on the work.

I would guess that most people newer to woodworking aren't getting part of their hand past the fence and onto the stem of the gauge for support, or they're focused on keeping the blade in the wood more so than having the fence against it.

I've got wheel gauges, and maybe had the same trouble early on (can't remember).

Back to the topic that was mentioned here - laying out mortises with a single knife gauge. I think that's a losing proposition for the reasons mentioned here - a deep knife line will end up being inaccurate, which you can learn to work with, but you don't need to.

If you're spending money, this is the best marking gauge I've ever used. For mortises or anything else, though I do like a wheel gauge for a fine line. One without micro adjust (the inexpensive veritas version). This gauge is not that expensive if you're into things like Lie Nielsen planes. If you're into making everything yourself and picking up 2 pound car boot planes, then it is *very* expensive. The blades on it are super blue steel and the stems of the irons are stainless. It is so precisely made that everything moves like it's waxed.

http://www.toolsfromjapan.com/store/ind ... ts_id=2036

An even better idea than the above would be to create a fixed width marking gauge for each mortise chisel you use. Chances are, you'll only use a couple on a regular basis, and having them so that only the fence moves is a pretty handy thing.

 

[Bm101]

Pete, I have that QS gauge. I bought it when I first started getting into woodworking rather than fixing the house and I thought buying tools would help me. (This is not a dig by the way. Buy what you want, it has no effect on me whatsoever) I've learnt as many of us have that they help but they don't alleviate the problem. I have found with the QS one it's all to do with keeping the fence bang up against the timber. It's very easy to roll it away from square if you concentrate on the cutter not the fence. I think it's a great bit of kit but it does take a bit of mastering. Worth noting I have heard quite a few people say they can't get on with this type of gauge. I'd say stick with it personally but I don't know a whole lot so you take your chances.
You're really pretty close to me. I'm in between Nazeing and Broxbourne. If you know where the boating centre/old lido is I'm near there. You're welcome to borrow my old marples and and an English pattern gauge if you want to try them for a week or so, send me a PM and we'll sort out some details.
Might give you an idea if you need to buy something else or maybe just tweak what you're doing.
To my mind, if you can't get on with the QS wheeled gauge a more expensive wheeled one won't help.

Send me a pm/contact if you're interested fella.

(edit.... started writing this about half ago.... so I've just seen the latest posts...)

Cheers
Chris

 

[Paddy Roxburgh]

Maybe I could try making a cutting gauge but i'd not know where to start on a mortise gauge.

Hello,

Simplify, simplify, simplify! If you make your own mortice gauge, who says it has to be adjustable? The pin spacings, that is.

How many mortice chisels do you currently use....three? Make a gauge with pin spacings to match your mortice chisels. Foolproof and quick and simple. Make them from different fancy woods to distinguish between them.

Alternatively, buy nice one if you want and don't let anyone here put you off. If the nay sayers were to actually make a gauge to the standard of the ones you like, I'd be surprised if they would sell them for as little as 50 quid. Arguably they are good value if you wanted one.

Mike.

That's a really good idea Mike, one that is so obvious I can't really think why I've never thought of it. I'm going to try and speed through my work tomorrow and make a set of mortise gauges.
Thanks, Paddy

 

[G S Haydon]

Hi Petey83

I would recommend the Marples combination marking/mortise gauge. It will serve you well for some time, it's well versatile and good value. I'm aware of many other types and have used some of them but nothing else comes close. I'd like to make some gauges like Pete has at some point. Very nice indeed! Based on your posts I would assume that your experience is not yet developed enough to make a good gauge. Also, save the cedar for something else.

I agree with Derek that should spend as much as you want on what you want. Although Derek referred to some people as "wankers", all they are trying to do is avoid you assuming that spending a lot of cash is a short cut to skills or good outcomes. I'll admit they've been pretty blunt but don't let that put you off.

 

[woodbrains]

That's a really good idea Mike, one that is so obvious I can't really think why I've never thought of it. I'm going to try and speed through my work tomorrow and make a set of mortise gauges.
Thanks, Paddy

Hello,

Post the outcome here when you do, it will be interesting to see.

I will eventually get around to doing a set, but I have to finish making my Ashley Iles chisel handles first. I have just reshaped a tenon saw handle, have an old Ulmia mitre saw to refurbish and some storage to finish for my bench. The list goes on; which is why sometimes it is best to just buy tools and get on with woodworking! Making or modifying tools can be fun and yields excellent results but a balance needs to be struck between making tools and doing stuff. Buying fine stuff is likely to get one woodworking quickly without having to faff. I have in the past bought cheap and regretted the purchase. It is a good way to educate yourself in what works and what doesn't and why, but it can be a costly exercise. It is funny though, that now i know what to buy and at what quality and what to make, i don't really need any more tools!

Mike.

 

[David C]

I have many types of gauge, but generally prefer to use my modified standard Marples gauges. About £4-50.

You can see these working on my you tube channel, "Marking gauge modification". The first two minutes.

best wishes,
David

 

[Petey83]

Hi Petey83

I would recommend the Marples combination marking/mortise gauge. It will serve you well for some time, it's well versatile and good value. I'm aware of many other types and have used some of them but nothing else comes close. I'd like to make some gauges like Pete has at some point. Very nice indeed! Based on your posts I would assume that your experience is not yet developed enough to make a good gauge. Also, save the cedar for something else.

I agree with Derek that should spend as much as you want on what you want. Although Derek referred to some people as "wankers", all they are trying to do is avoid you assuming that spending a lot of cash is a short cut to skills or good outcomes. I'll admit they've been pretty blunt but don't let that put you off.

yep not even close to experienced enough to be confident in making a marking gauge. I am planning to have a go ay making a traditional mallet as the cheap one from toolstation I have now is pretty beat up and has a split in it so I am not expecting it to survive my work bench build. I have some smaller offcuts of the cedar and some walnut scraps I pinched off the brother in law this evening so once the bench is done that will be the first tool i have a go at making.

I don't for a minute think spending loads of money will buy me skill but what it does buy me is confidence that the mistake is mine and not the tools. It also allows me more time to make stuff rather than tuning up and restoring tools - after 3 years living in a flat with limited space and time to actually enjoy the hobby I am just excited to have my workshop and a long list of items to make for the house

 

[G S Haydon]

Sounds like you've got plenty to keep you busy! At times I feel like a woodworking Sisyphus with the amount on the "to do pile". I'm glad you're investing in some good stuff. If you need to talk to suppliers I'm sure you'll find Peter Sefton and Matthew Platt very helpful too. They are good guys, even though they'll make you part with some hard earned.

 

[Derek Cohen (Perth Oz)]

Petey, when it comes to mortice gauges, pins and knives rule. Wheel gauges can work, but they leave a very light line in end grain. Guages, such as the Veritas dual arm gauge are excellent gauges, but the wheels must be used separately - together they will not make an impression on my local hardwood.

THe Kinshiro I posted earlier is a suberb mortice gauge insofar as it is easy to set up and leaves clear lines. However it has a down side in that the setting cannot be maintained if you want to transfer it to a offset, such as the tenon of a stretcher to a deeper mortice position in a table leg. The gauge that David (DW) posted is better in this regard. Most pin gauges also have the ability to maintain a setting when changing depth. The traditional pin mortice gauge is a decent choice in this area.

My response was to design and build a knife gauge that has the ergonomics I like of a Japanese gauge with the adjustabiliity of the traditional gauge. I chose to make a fixed blade style with blades suited for my 1/4", 5/16", and 3/8" mortice chisels. There is a single gauge with multiple blades that can be dropped in/exchanged as needed.

The rounded beam enables it to be locked down tightly, and offers excellent visibility ..

Regards from Perth

Derek

 

[Peter Sefton]

This is an article I wrote a couple of years ago outlining some of the different gauges available.

http://www.peterseftonfurnitureschool.c ... -wwc05.pdf

Cheers Peter

 

[bugbear]

I have looked at the various Charles Hayward books I have, and photographed a couple of pages.

Here's "the grip"

Words from the master:

BugBear

 

[bugbear]

I have many types of gauge, but generally prefer to use my modified standard Marples gauges. About £4-50.

Did you change your mind about the merits of the Stanley 5061, or were you forced to move on because they're no longer made?

BugBear

 

[Petey83]

This is an article I wrote a couple of years ago outlining some of the different gauges available.

http://www.peterseftonfurnitureschool.c ... -wwc05.pdf

Cheers Peter

Just ordered one of your Marples mortise gauges Peter.