Makita RT0700 vs Katsu Routers

[Bodgers]

The Katsu router that looks like the Makita RT0700 has come up for discussion on here quite a bit before. I think quite a few members have bought one. There was a few threads where some were suggesting it was made in the same factory etc:

post1190014.html#p1190014

I'm trying to free up some more space in the workshop, so I junked my old B&Q router, with its large router table, to replace it with 1/4" router. I have owned the Makita (that sits permanently in a XCarve CNC) for a while, so I decided to splash out on the Katsu (currently 28.99 at AIM) and compare them.

I did a quick video comparing them:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ZZ7P908seE

Executive summary: No chance these are made by the same people/factory or anything approaching.

 

[ScaredyCat]

Interesting that your Katsu makes that clicking noise when you change speeds, mine doesn't do that at all, it's smooth and silent.


.

 

[Bodgers]

Interesting, yeah they are distinct notches in the speed selection. I suppose they often revise these things to either cut costs and/or add fixes.

 

[beech1948]

Bodgers,
Your conclusion of being from a different factory is quite wrong unfortunately. The body castings alone give the lie to that.

The motor, the tiny electronics board that controls speed, the speed dial itself are all interchangeable. Consider how many models of car say Mercedes Benz make. They all use the same series of engines eg C220/E220/ML220 etc, the electronic modules incrementally improve by trim level at more cost.

That is what is at work here. So same factory. Makita simply took on a design from the factory, spec'd their bits and their router was born using the factories castings and probably some parts. Makita do not manufacture this router it is subbed out or "bought in" depending on your language.

What you do indicate is that everything has a price and you pays your money and takes your choice.

The Katsu is a fine little thing ( I have three) that can be used and abused and if it fails can be discarded. The Makita at a price around £140 or more probably can not due to the high cost.

Is one better than the other NO. They both have a place and a use.

My background as an engineer for 45 yrs working on products such as this router /printers/high volume manufacturing/white goods manufacturing leads me to this opinion.

Al

 

[Bodgers]

Bodgers,
Your conclusion of being from a different factory is quite wrong unfortunately. The body castings alone give the lie to that.

The motor, the tiny electronics board that controls speed, the speed dial itself are all interchangeable. Consider how many models of car say Mercedes Benz make. They all use the same series of engines eg C220/E220/ML220 etc, the electronic modules incrementally improve by trim level at more cost.

That is what is at work here. So same factory. Makita simply took on a design from the factory, spec'd their bits and their router was born using the factories castings and probably some parts. Makita do not manufacture this router it is subbed out or "bought in" depending on your language.

What you do indicate is that everything has a price and you pays your money and takes your choice.

The Katsu is a fine little thing ( I have three) that can be used and abused and if it fails can be discarded. The Makita at a price around £140 or more probably can not due to the high cost.

Is one better than the other NO. They both have a place and a use.

My background as an engineer for 45 yrs working on products such as this router /printers/high volume manufacturing/white goods manufacturing leads me to this opinion.

Al

I agree that Makita subcontract the manufacturing out. It is made in China after all, and Makita are headquartered in Japan.

I just don't buy that it has anything to do with this Katsu.

Why make every single part slightly different? Everywhere you look the Katsu is different.

If you have the injection mold for the plastic casing available, why make a completely different one? If you have the motors on hand why have a completely different one? If you have the same fan why make a completely different one? If you have the same flexcord strain reliefs, why fit a completely different one? It just doesn't stack up. Why have a different spindle and collet?

Also why make the plastics in the Makita teal? Surely your highly valued customer (Makita) would be asking some questions as to why you have a sideline in look-a-like routers? Answer: Because this is a company unconnected with Maktia that are trying to convince buyers that it looks like and talks like a Maikta, so surely it is one, right?

I have no beef with the Katsu. It is a great value. I will be keeping it regardless, along with the Makita, but I don't think people should be buying it thinking they are getting something made to the same standards. To me, it seems it is a classic case of a Chinese company cloning something to trade of another manufacturer's reputation.

 

[Rorschach]

My speed control does not click, it's smooth like the makita.

I have no doubt they are based on the same design. Whether they are made in the same factory I don't know. Makita will spec higher quality parts than the Katsu models.

To me it doesn't matter though. I was able to buy a complete outfit for the Katsu and a set of decent cutters for less than the base model cost of the makita and I can completely interchange parts and accessories from both machines if i wanted to.
The katsu is powerful, quiet and smooth running and the accessories are well made and work nicely. If it ever breaks I will just be buying another, at less than £30 for the base unit, why not?

 

[Chris152]

Whoever makes the Katsu, it's good to see them compared side-by-side.
Fwiw, I can't imagine why there would be such subtle differences, eg in the plastic mouldings, if they're coming from the same factory - why make a new mould for the cheaper version?
As everyone seems to agree, that doesn't diminish the value of the Katsu. Funnily enough I had the Katsu in my Amazon basket yesterday, haven't yet hit 'buy', still wondering about it.
Thanks for the review.

 

[Bodgers]

My speed control does not click, it's smooth like the makita.

I have no doubt they are based on the same design. Whether they are made in the same factory I don't know. Makita will spec higher quality parts than the Katsu models.

To me it doesn't matter though. I was able to buy a complete outfit for the Katsu and a set of decent cutters for less than the base model cost of the makita and I can completely interchange parts and accessories from both machines if i wanted to.
The katsu is powerful, quiet and smooth running and the accessories are well made and work nicely. If it ever breaks I will just be buying another, at less than £30 for the base unit, why not?

I think "based on the same design" is being a bit generous. Comparing them side by side, it is more of an attempt to make something cosmetically similar so as to attract more sales. The design of the motor controller/motor a clearly completely different.

Price wise, it is definitely a deal, but if I was using this to earn a living paying £60-70 more for the Makita would make more sense due to the 3 year warranty, better quality switches and the way the controller does a better job keeping the speed consistent in thicker cuts.

 

[El Barto]

I picked up a Katsu palm router for a one off bit of work and was pretty impressed by it. Pretty damn good value for money, especially if you're only an occasional user of such tools.

 

[skeetstar]

Rutlands have a deal on the katsu, or what I think is the Katsu at the moment.

https://www.rutlands.co.uk/sp+precision ... 000?tyah=y

looks like a saving of a tenner over the usual market price.

 

[Chris152]

Ahhh, but is that a Katsu, or is it a cheap knock-off clone of a Katsu?

 

[Rorschach]

My speed control does not click, it's smooth like the makita.

I have no doubt they are based on the same design. Whether they are made in the same factory I don't know. Makita will spec higher quality parts than the Katsu models.

To me it doesn't matter though. I was able to buy a complete outfit for the Katsu and a set of decent cutters for less than the base model cost of the makita and I can completely interchange parts and accessories from both machines if i wanted to.
The katsu is powerful, quiet and smooth running and the accessories are well made and work nicely. If it ever breaks I will just be buying another, at less than £30 for the base unit, why not?

I think "based on the same design" is being a bit generous. Comparing them side by side, it is more of an attempt to make something cosmetically similar so as to attract more sales. The design of the motor controller/motor a clearly completely different.

Price wise, it is definitely a deal, but if I was using this to earn a living paying £60-70 more for the Makita would make more sense due to the 3 year warranty, better quality switches and the way the controller does a better job keeping the speed consistent in thicker cuts.

I am guessing it wasn't this forum but I distinctly remember reading the katsu design predates the makita and that the makita is a rebadged (and possibly upgraded) version of the katsu.

 

[Bodgers]

Yeah, no way it bears any relation to it.

 

[Bodgers]

Ahhh, but is that a Katsu, or is it a cheap knock-off clone of a Katsu?

It was from AIM tools. 100% Katsu

 

[Sideways]

Sorry Andy, I think you drew a false conclusion by looking at details that are relatively trivial in the overall design. There's far more in common than different. In mass production, moulds for cast and plastic parts are produced and it's not uncommon for mould designs to be modified to create slightly different parts. Changing a circuit board to give different speed range and different type / position potentiometer is a pretty minor change. Same goes for changing a 2 cent plastic fan. Buying more expensive bearings, etc
Where you may be right is that sometimes many different factories produce the same design product with tiny, mostly cosmetic differences. I've lived in China and seen this.
It's an enormous country, multiple factories are needed to produce enough of popular products to meet demand and goverment has planned and controlled the economy for decades and that overrides the recent capitalist liberalisation introduced in the last decade. If the 5 year plan says X and that requires ten factories making the same something, it happens.
So basic designs proliferate and copyright / patent regimes are almost non existent to prevent this.
To me it makes no difference what factory it came out of. It's obvious that the two machines are closely related and the Katsu brand offers excellent value for money if you don't need the better Makita warranty and most likely better bearings !
Appreciate you doing the review. Don't suppose you want to tear them down and show us the innards

 

[Bodgers]

There's far more in common than different.

Appreciate you doing the review. Don't suppose you want to tear them down and show us the innards

Hmm, superficially you might draw that conclusion if you saw them in isolation. With them both in hand, I don't see anything that is the same between them.

I was going to do a tear down in the interests of getting to the bottom of whether they are basically the same, but when I got the Katsu out of the box and turned it on, it became pretty obvious that it was using a different motor with a completely different controller, so I didn't bother.

I have a couple of jobs to do with the Katsu over the weekend. Once they are done I will see if I can squeeze a tear down in.

 

[olddogsleeping]

I have two Katsu Routers, one with smooth speed control and one with clicks. I use one as the spindle in my OX cnc, and have replaced the speed control with a homemade PID controller to get better low speed torque.

The difference between the clicks and no clicks model is just the potentiometer (wheel) used.
The Katsu controller is an open PCB, and not like the sealed unit found in the Makita.
I understand the Makita has soft-start, the Katsu's do not.
I measured the Katsu no-load speed range to be 15000-33000
The bearings are surprisingly good, both my units have less than 0.05mm runout,after several years of abuse.

 

[Bodgers]

I have two Katsu Routers, one with smooth speed control and one with clicks. I use one as the spindle in my OX cnc, and have replaced the speed control with a homemade PID controller to get better low speed torque.

The difference between the clicks and no clicks model is just the potentiometer (wheel) used.
The Katsu controller is an open PCB, and not like the sealed unit found in the Makita.
I understand the Makita has soft-start, the Katsu's do not.
I measured the Katsu no-load speed range to be 15000-33000
The bearings are surprisingly good, both my units have less than 0.05mm runout,after several years of abuse.

I noticed the soft start difference. The Makita's isn't that strong (not like it is on a DeWalt track saw for example) but a clear difference to the Katsu start up.

Interesting info on the run out. I can actually feel a bit of a vibration on the Katsu, was wondering what the run out was like.

Sent from my Redmi Note 5 using Tapatalk

 

[Derek Cohen (Perth Oz)]

The Katsu is sold in the USA as a Grizzly, although FWW mag comment that the parts/design is esentially interchangeable with the Makita.

Grizzly T27139 palm router:

http://www.grizzly.com/products/Laminat ... ase/T27139

Regards from Perth

Derek

 

[deema]

I can’t believe that Makita would not have taken out a registered design on the router, in which case anything that is so similar would contravene it and not be allowed to be sold. Apart from one moulding and a PCB and a few bits highlighted in the video they appear to be identical. I have also run companies that make different branded products from the same core designs and used small superficial and low cost variations to differentiate between brands. This allowed the same product to be sold at the high and low end of the market with different price points whilst having little design and tooling costs.