I recently bought a refurbished Kity 613 bandsaw and I’ve been having problems setting it up, but as I’m new to bandsaws I’m not sure if it’s me or not! I‘m aware that the Kity bandsaw is unusual in that the blade is set slightly overhanging the edge of the tyre, not the middle, but when I set the blade on the top wheel, it is almost off the bottom wheel and easily falls off when using it. I wonder if the wheels aren’t perfectly aligned and are causing this, or am I doing something wrong? Also, could it be that I’m using too thin a blade as it’s a 6.3mm blade (is there a minimum size?). The only way it will work without the blade falling off the bottom wheel is to have the top one further in than it should be. I’ve attached two photos, the one of the top wheel has the blade a few mm in from the edge, and the one of the bottom wheel has the blade overhanging the wheel. Any help gratefully received!
Kity 613 Bandsaw wheels not in line?
- Thread starter MrM
- Start date
Help Support UKworkshop.co.uk:
worn thumbs
Established Member
I think you need to acquaint yourself with the tracking adjustment.I have no idea where Kity might have it but you need to get close to the required tension and slowly (by hand) rotate the wheels.While doing so,adjust the tracking until the blade sits steadily in the region where it is supposed to be.At worst,the blade will jump off and you need to backtrack a bit and refine the tracking.Repeat until the problem goes away.You may need to start from scratch with the next blade.
clogs
just can't decide
there are a few you tube vid's showing rebuilds to Kity equipment.....
often in French but u just need photo's.....
also take some photo's of ur machine with the guard off.....both wheels etc.....
we'll help you find out how to adjust everything....
if u can fix a bycycle u will be able to sort this out.....
often in French but u just need photo's.....
also take some photo's of ur machine with the guard off.....both wheels etc.....
we'll help you find out how to adjust everything....
if u can fix a bycycle u will be able to sort this out.....
If it's way out check that someone hasn't replaced a wheel back to front.
Hiya, thank you for your reply - do you mean the tilt adjustment or are you referring to something different? I've been adjusting the tilt, which moves the blade slowly forwards and back on the top wheel until it is steady, but the blade moves the same distance along the bottom wheel as well - so when it's in the correct place on the top, it's too far over the edge on the bottom wheel.
Many thanks! I'll take some tonight and post them.
Thank you for your advice everyone. I've learned that the word for the alignment of the wheels is 'coplanar' and measured them. I've discovered that the lower wheel is 3mm further in than the top wheel, which might explain my issue. I've also found a French YouTube of someone who seemed to have the same issue as me with his Kity (although the other way round) and although I didn't understand it, I could see that there is some adjustment on the back for the lower wheel, so I'll have a go at that.
Here's a photo of the whole machine with the guard off, as requested by clogs. Any further advice from people with the Kity bandsaw still welcome! I'd like to make a taller fence at some point.
Here's a photo of the whole machine with the guard off, as requested by clogs. Any further advice from people with the Kity bandsaw still welcome! I'd like to make a taller fence at some point.
Attachments
Niall Church
Established Member
- Joined
- 22 Apr 2023
- Messages
- 160
- Reaction score
- 5
Should there not be small weights to.balacnce the wheels on those saws?
worn thumbs
Established Member
I just realised that it was 1995 when I last used one of those Kity bandsaws and I may have forgotten some of the relevant points.I am unsure about how the blade tension is determined and wonder whether a bit too much tension might cause the top wheel to lean a bit.For reference,when I discuss bandsaws I tend to use the word tilt to describe altering the angle of the table and tracking to describe locating the blade in it's correct location.
My concern about frame distortion goes back to the time when somebody asked me to take a look at a Startrite machine that kept throwing the blade off.After the third event he came to see me and I could not get the blade to run properly at all.That particular machine had V-belts and multi step pulleys for different speeds and when I looked at the pulleys it was obvious that the belt position in one was not in line with the correct step in the other pulley and the excess tension was distorting the frame.Switching to the correct step gave instant success and a bit of fine tuning on tracking had the machine up and running.
My concern about frame distortion goes back to the time when somebody asked me to take a look at a Startrite machine that kept throwing the blade off.After the third event he came to see me and I could not get the blade to run properly at all.That particular machine had V-belts and multi step pulleys for different speeds and when I looked at the pulleys it was obvious that the belt position in one was not in line with the correct step in the other pulley and the excess tension was distorting the frame.Switching to the correct step gave instant success and a bit of fine tuning on tracking had the machine up and running.
I have a similar issue on my fairly recently aquired Kity 615. Not as bad though as it seems to work ok, no blade jumping off. That might just be because I'm using a 12mm blade.
Not looked at it for a while but I wasn't happy with the arrangement when I first set it up. Since it cuts ok as it is I didn't bother investigating further. I was able to adjust the top wheel tilt/tracking alignment easily enough, I think both wheels are coplanar, but I couldn't see how to axially adjust the lower wheel to correct the discrepancy.
Edit.
They're obviously not coplanar, otherwise I'd have no issue! What I should have said is the wheels are on two parallel planes, separated by about 5mm.
Not looked at it for a while but I wasn't happy with the arrangement when I first set it up. Since it cuts ok as it is I didn't bother investigating further. I was able to adjust the top wheel tilt/tracking alignment easily enough, I think both wheels are coplanar, but I couldn't see how to axially adjust the lower wheel to correct the discrepancy.
Edit.
They're obviously not coplanar, otherwise I'd have no issue! What I should have said is the wheels are on two parallel planes, separated by about 5mm.
Last edited:
Top wheel;-
Lower wheel
Lower wheel
I had alot of issues setting up my inca 205 which had the same problem of the blade would fall off. The inca the blade runs with the teeth just over the edge of the flat tyres. My wheels are not totally coplanar and I think the frame is slightly out of true. Anyhow; it was solved by placing two washers behind the lower wheel, this enabled the blade to stay on and with some fine adjustment can have the blade teeth just hanging over the wheels. Also a new blade was definitely easier to set up; if using an old blade with a slight twist in it you might be chasing your tail somewhat !
I think you hit the nail on the head there "flat tyres" if you have domed tyres the teeth of the blade should be just off the dome which would put them inside the outside edge of the wheel, as far as I understand the operations of Bandsaws, but no idea what this Kity is fitted with.
Yes, it looks like you've got the same issue as me! I've actually replaced the blade with a wider one for the moment as I need to do some re- sawing and it's much happier. I think trying to use a thin blade wasn't helping.
I like your solution of using a couple of washers. I am using a new blade, although wonder if it got damaged when it jumped off one of the times as it seems to have a bit of a kink in it now.
It does depend somewhat I think on what way the blades kinked; if you can find a dead flat surface and lay it down on that to see if lays dead flat then you should be okay. Mine was not and had no end of trouble until I realised !
Mead Camans
George
Interesting read! I have the Kity 513. I forget the actual difference between the 613 and the 513, I think it may have just been that the 613 comes with the floor stand and the 513 was the bench top model.
At any rate, it has the exact same issue with the blade hanging off the bottom wheel a lot more than the top, but I've always assumed that it was just something you had to live with on certain bandsaws, as we had an Electra Bekum at my old work that had the same issue, and it never seams to cause any noticeable preformed issues.
Having flat topped wheels means that you have to have the teeth hanging off the edge, of course, as it'll bend the tooth set out of the inside of the blade if you don't (something I've experienced with mine!)
I've never liked the way the blade is half off the bottom wheel when it's tensioned, and I've wondered if this decreases the lifespan of the blade as well. Having read this thread, I'll try the wash method and see if I can even out the offset somewhat.
George
At any rate, it has the exact same issue with the blade hanging off the bottom wheel a lot more than the top, but I've always assumed that it was just something you had to live with on certain bandsaws, as we had an Electra Bekum at my old work that had the same issue, and it never seams to cause any noticeable preformed issues.
Having flat topped wheels means that you have to have the teeth hanging off the edge, of course, as it'll bend the tooth set out of the inside of the blade if you don't (something I've experienced with mine!)
I've never liked the way the blade is half off the bottom wheel when it's tensioned, and I've wondered if this decreases the lifespan of the blade as well. Having read this thread, I'll try the wash method and see if I can even out the offset somewhat.
George
Ttrees
Iroko loco!
The likely reason of the blade tracking as such is due to the tires.
If you've got flat tires like those seemingly cork/rubber composite ones,
which normally get dressed to a crowned profile after being installed on the wheels,
then that would explain matters.
Why, one may ask?...
Well, one could take note of what happens to something flat when bent around a circumference
like a spare tire, or infact a blade.
The sides will curl upwards on the sides, lust like a crown.
If that crown gets nibbled off, say from misalignment issues
then the blade as mentioned above, will get the set compressed
if adjusting tracking.
Why would one be fooling about trying to track their blade one might ask?...
Should the blade not wish to stay put anywhere around the front of the wheel, and one experiences excessive rubbing of the blade on the thrust guides/and the blade not wanting to cut/burning, then it's quite likely one will try some troubleshooting.
Dressing the tires to a crowned profile would be the fix, should that happen,
but where to put the apex of the camber might be relative to where you wish the
blade to run on the wheels, i.e to suit the max/min of the thrust guides/assembly and not beyond.
This "flat to some" ahem.. tire, on the Centauro CO600, is 1mm closer to the front.
Well..seemingly flat until taken outta the packaging,
which resulted in a wild goose chase for me..
in believing my Italian machine should have flat tires,
That cost me a considerable amount of vulcanized rubber, thinking I was doing something wrong!..
Silly me, as I had the answer all along!
It just seemed flat..
but when stretched out (gap to account for the tongue on these "snap on" tires)
One can indeed see the crowned profile
Which is offset by 1mm,
so unless one reckons this tire from the official UK dealer is a reject...
Then this means there is an acting crown/apex on the wheels,
as one cannot suggest the slight camber evident is to account for anticlastic curvature,
(see Cooks sawmill video above)
i.e creating a totally flat profile when installed.
Updated rebated block to accept scraper,
much more suited to being shimmed w/ duct tape on two axis
relatave to the wheel
not shown, but one must dress tires with the blade installed to stop top wheel from tilting.
I've posted all that before, if you wish to save yourself some rubber/effort.
If you make a good job of dressing those tires, and you look at the top of the wheel
(guides backed off)
and see the blade walking, then the wheels could be aligned using a scribing beam to
draw a line from whichever wheel in non-adjustable.
That machine being quite a bit different than the usual copies of/or the modern Italian saw design.
I've a post about bandsaw wheel and motor alignment elsewhere.
All the best
Tom
If you've got flat tires like those seemingly cork/rubber composite ones,
which normally get dressed to a crowned profile after being installed on the wheels,
then that would explain matters.
Why, one may ask?...
Well, one could take note of what happens to something flat when bent around a circumference
like a spare tire, or infact a blade.
The sides will curl upwards on the sides, lust like a crown.
If that crown gets nibbled off, say from misalignment issues
then the blade as mentioned above, will get the set compressed
if adjusting tracking.
Why would one be fooling about trying to track their blade one might ask?...
Should the blade not wish to stay put anywhere around the front of the wheel, and one experiences excessive rubbing of the blade on the thrust guides/and the blade not wanting to cut/burning, then it's quite likely one will try some troubleshooting.
Dressing the tires to a crowned profile would be the fix, should that happen,
but where to put the apex of the camber might be relative to where you wish the
blade to run on the wheels, i.e to suit the max/min of the thrust guides/assembly and not beyond.
This "flat to some" ahem.. tire, on the Centauro CO600, is 1mm closer to the front.
Well..seemingly flat until taken outta the packaging,
which resulted in a wild goose chase for me..
in believing my Italian machine should have flat tires,
That cost me a considerable amount of vulcanized rubber, thinking I was doing something wrong!..
Silly me, as I had the answer all along!
It just seemed flat..
but when stretched out (gap to account for the tongue on these "snap on" tires)
One can indeed see the crowned profile
Which is offset by 1mm,
so unless one reckons this tire from the official UK dealer is a reject...
Then this means there is an acting crown/apex on the wheels,
as one cannot suggest the slight camber evident is to account for anticlastic curvature,
(see Cooks sawmill video above)
i.e creating a totally flat profile when installed.
Updated rebated block to accept scraper,
much more suited to being shimmed w/ duct tape on two axis
relatave to the wheel
not shown, but one must dress tires with the blade installed to stop top wheel from tilting.
I've posted all that before, if you wish to save yourself some rubber/effort.
If you make a good job of dressing those tires, and you look at the top of the wheel
(guides backed off)
and see the blade walking, then the wheels could be aligned using a scribing beam to
draw a line from whichever wheel in non-adjustable.
That machine being quite a bit different than the usual copies of/or the modern Italian saw design.
I've a post about bandsaw wheel and motor alignment elsewhere.
All the best
Tom
Last edited:
Long time since I worked on one of these, I have a 612 which is subtly different. I can't see clearly if the retaining circlip is visible on the lower bearing, maybe just that the photo doesn't show the whole bearing so can't see the ends. But if the circlip is not there then suggests to me that either the wheel is the wrong way round, as Phil suggested, or the bearing isn't properly installed. The wheel does look to be the right way round, so I don't think it is that, but is the clip there? Both clips should be facing out of I remember correctly.
Last edited:
Niall Church
Established Member
- Joined
- 22 Apr 2023
- Messages
- 160
- Reaction score
- 5
Hi fergie 307,he's given a photoof the whole machine wjth both clips showing,however,i notice the the holes in the clips for removing them are closer in the lower wheel than in the upper wheel!
