John Brown
Freeloading Social media influenza
He still hasn't proved anything, as the fault is intermittent, and didn't manifest itself during his visit.
Inefficient appliance repair.
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A lot of the problems today are down to the fact we do not design using standardised parts so every make and model of anything seems to have a unique set of parts so it is just unrealistic for anyone to know or carry the parts they may need. Another issue is complexity, cheap complexity increases the probability of failure and makes diagnosis more difficult and then add in that so much we buy has only a short product life cycle so no one is going to sit on a pile of spares which will not fit the next model coming along.
These companies do not believe anything a customer tells them, boilers are now to complex and especially combi's but if the will was there then a lot of issues could be resolved more easily but it is not in someones interest. How hard would it be to have a simple comms module in a boiler that can be accessed remotely to allow a repair firm to at least get some idea of your boilers issues. The agricultural market does this with tractors, which also have a good diagnostic's system built in so the guy can turn up with parts a fix your tractor as farmers don't like downtime especially in the harvest season.
Another example are the car breakdown companies, you know the failure cannot be fixed and you need recovery but they always insist on sending someone out many hours later who then tells you that it cannot be fixed roadside and you need recovery, now you wait again for many hours for some third party recovery firm to show up.
These companies do not believe anything a customer tells them, boilers are now to complex and especially combi's but if the will was there then a lot of issues could be resolved more easily but it is not in someones interest. How hard would it be to have a simple comms module in a boiler that can be accessed remotely to allow a repair firm to at least get some idea of your boilers issues. The agricultural market does this with tractors, which also have a good diagnostic's system built in so the guy can turn up with parts a fix your tractor as farmers don't like downtime especially in the harvest season.
Another example are the car breakdown companies, you know the failure cannot be fixed and you need recovery but they always insist on sending someone out many hours later who then tells you that it cannot be fixed roadside and you need recovery, now you wait again for many hours for some third party recovery firm to show up.
No one seems to have mentioned the obvious - the manufacturers make a lot of money out of spares. Why produce half a dozen different models of something with mostly the same components when they could all be totally different?
To buy completely ( as spare parts ) the average new car ( non leccy ) would cost about 7 to 15 times the cost of the car . probably the same for most things nowadays. Good point Phil.
The above comments are why I bought an Ebac washing machine.
Made in Britain, repairable, 7 year parts and labour guarantee - and human beings you can talk to.
Generally, I find that corporates have too many "systems" for dealing with customers which result in inefficiency and expense for the customer.
Made in Britain, repairable, 7 year parts and labour guarantee - and human beings you can talk to.
Generally, I find that corporates have too many "systems" for dealing with customers which result in inefficiency and expense for the customer.
And a price to match.
J-G
Established Member
That sounds as though you are suggesting that the Ebac machines are not good value for money. I'd never heard the name before so did a quick search and with prices between £500 & £700 they don't look overpriced to me. If you ONLY get 7 years use out of one that's at worst only £100 per annum - if you bought a (say) Hotpoint at (say) £400 and it only lasted 2 years that is twice the cost per annum.
It's not just about the capital cost!
I didn't say they weren't value, I merely made the point you pay for what you get.
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When I bought it to replace a VERY old Indesit I saw loads of comments online about Bosch, Electrolux etc complaining about two or three year old machines that had failed (usually bearings) and that couldn't be economically repaired so I decided to look at Miele which does have replaceable bearings. Very expensive so decided to take a chance on Ebac. No regrets yet, although it's only one year old
Isn't that against the consumer protection act, I thought you could insist on a replacement new machine within a certain period if the machine failed? Happy to be put right.About a month ago, I made & fitted a new kitchen for my next door neighbours. As part of the job, they wanted all new appliances including an integrated Washing Machine which I also supplied.
The W/M was the last appliance to be installed and I was away on holiday for a week the following day.
After fitting it, I ran it through a quick 35min program, just to make sure it was filling & emptying correctly, which it was and it completed the program.
A week later, on my return from holiday, my neighbour knocked to say the machine has never completed a program since.
I went In and could see that there was indeed a problem.
I contacted the manufacturers own Service Department, gave them the FD and E-NR numbers from the machine label as they had requested and talked through the symptoms of the problem with the Technician, who then booked an appointment for their engineer to come and look at it.
He duly turned up at the correct time and was clearly very knowledgeable and experienced ( they are not all like this....!)
He also ran it through a quick program, and it went into pause mode halfway through the program, just as the Client had described.
He then ran it through a Test program, that tests all the various components within the machine and they all came back to say they were working correctly and there were no fault codes displayed.
He stated that he had "never seen this scenario before"...... And thought it must be a software problem and that he would need to order 2 new motherboards from Germany, as they didnt have them in stock in the UK......Expected time of delivery and a revisit was 3 to 4 weeks.
I wasnt happy about this timescale, as the Client had already been without the use of a machine for a week already, so I asked if he could recommend a new replacement machine on his Engineers Report.......He said that company policy was to repair, not replace an appliance, even though this machine had never worked correctly straight out of its wrappings.
After speaking directly with the manufacturer who supplies me direct ( I have a Trade Account with them ), I had to order another machine that was delivered 2 days later, for which they sent me another invoice.
I then had to deliver the new appliance, remove the faulty appliance, fit the new one and bring the faulty one back to my business premises, all at my own expense.
After 4 or 5 more phone calls and 2 failed collections where they didnt turn up on the days they said they would, the faulty machine was finally collected on Thursday this week......Obviously, I'm now waiting for a credit note for the faulty machine.
How the manufacturer could think the Client or myself would accept a faulty/ repaired machine straight out of the box, is completely beyond me....?
I will just add,...I have been dealing with this manufacturer for more than 15 years and this is the first time I have ever had to replace a brand new machine from them. The new machine is now working as it should be...
I have all Bosch white goods that are over twelve years old and have been perfect, I think it comes down to how often the machines are used, we are just two people so the machine gets far less use than a family with children, however our Neff ovens and hob get just as much use as a family of four and are even older, so I don't understand the expected failure rate of 2/5 years, perhaps when I bought them twelve or so years ago the standard of manufacture was better.
Even Bosch use sealed bearings in their washing machines now so have mostly become uneconomic to repair.
If you use an oven that regularly for two get a decent Instant Pot or Ninja (others are available) - you'll save a huge amount of electricity.
If you use an oven that regularly for two get a decent Instant Pot or Ninja (others are available) - you'll save a huge amount of electricity.
Distinterior
Established Member
My customer is the "consumer" and in reality, I am/was the retailer as well as the installer.
Of course, my customer would of had every right to throw his Teddy out of the pram if I had refused to replace the machine and I had insisted on just having it repaired,.....but I was not prepared to let that happen!
Hypothetically, if in 12 months time, the repaired machine went wrong with a completely different fault, there would always be the likely comment that " this machine never worked properly straight out of the box"......and they would be right!
John Brown
Freeloading Social media influenza
I have heard that if you have a ten year old white good, it's worthwhile trying to fix it, as they don't make 'em like that anymore. The downside, I suppose, is that the newer ones use less energy. I still find it ridiculous that a major appliance is built to last three years.
Anyone have any views re. cold fill only? I can see the logic, if the appliance is some distance from the boiler, and it's a combi, but our washer is 4 feet from our solar aided hot water tank.
Distinterior
Established Member
Previous customers do occasionally come back to me when an appliance needs to be replaced. Its understandable, to a degree, due to the fact that a lot of fitted appliances are not as simple as just unplugging the old one and plugging in the new one.
Having been in the fitted furniture & appliance business for so long, I wouldn't say that the time period between fitting new and the need for a replacement, has shortened over the years.
However, I do personally feel that the overall quality of appliances has dropped, even though the prices have steadily increased.
In my own kitchen at home, which I fitted in 1999, I fitted 6 new integrated appliances. Since then, I have replaced the W/M, the D/W, and the Oven.....I dont think that is unreasonable within a 24 year period.
All those original appliances were De Dietrich and the replacements are all Siemens.
Having been in the fitted furniture & appliance business for so long, I wouldn't say that the time period between fitting new and the need for a replacement, has shortened over the years.
However, I do personally feel that the overall quality of appliances has dropped, even though the prices have steadily increased.
In my own kitchen at home, which I fitted in 1999, I fitted 6 new integrated appliances. Since then, I have replaced the W/M, the D/W, and the Oven.....I dont think that is unreasonable within a 24 year period.
All those original appliances were De Dietrich and the replacements are all Siemens.
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Cold fill only, a nonsense, if you have already heated the water in your tank why fill with cold water and heat it, makes no sense to me just a waste of energy, it can only be the manufactures do not want to put that extra mixing valve and controls on the machine to save then the cost.
Yojevol
Clocking on
The water has to be heated somewhere (if hot wash is selected, that is) and it is more efficient to heat it in-situ rather than transport it from elsewhere. Even if a hot inlet is provided a heating element is still required to control temperature.
Brian
Brian
Agent_zed
Established Member
I think it is more to do with the efficiency/drive to move to electric over gas. It's cheaper to heat the water with gas and supply the machine as you said but that doesn't get people to move from gas.
For me though it is better (in the summer) to have cold fill as I has solar panels so I time the washing machine and dishwasher to come on when the sun is shining so it costs nothing to run/heat. If I had hot water fill then I'd have to pay for the gas that heats my tank.
InTheHighlands
New member
Cold fill - especially as washing machines use less & less water, they make sense unless the WM is v close (in pipe length) terms to the HW tank / combi. Otherwise a lot of what's done is draw in cooled down water from the pipework & have to reheat it. Meanwhile, the pipework is refilled with the hot water - only to cool down again.
Car recovery - as mentioned earlier, it's infuriating to have to wait for the RAC etc to come out to confirm that the car needs recovering, which is obvious with some faults. So was pleasantly surprised having described a recent gearbox fault for the RAC call centre to say that it obviously needs recovery & arranged that without the hassle & expense to us all of a prior visit to confirm.
Car recovery - as mentioned earlier, it's infuriating to have to wait for the RAC etc to come out to confirm that the car needs recovering, which is obvious with some faults. So was pleasantly surprised having described a recent gearbox fault for the RAC call centre to say that it obviously needs recovery & arranged that without the hassle & expense to us all of a prior visit to confirm.
John Brown
Freeloading Social media influenza
That's a valid point, Brian, except for the differential in gas and electricity prices, but I realise you said efficient, rather than economical. We have both solar water and PV, both inherited from the previous house owners. If I was starting from scratch, I think I'd have all PV, as the solar water doesn't do much in winter, but immersion heaters and the necessary diverter equipment are relatively cheap.
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