okeydokey
Established Member
If you have a survey done make sure you go around with them as you can ask specific questions and ask for them to be in the report. If they won't allow you to go around with them find another surveyor
Homebuying advice - cracked walls
- Thread starter msparker
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Have a survey done by a "Structural Engineer" not a "Building Surveyor" if you are serious about this purchase, if it's only a tentative enquiry I would walk away, I am a retired Structural Engineer and would not entertain that building without an extensive survey including soil reports and looking at adjoining and close buildings.
MorrisWoodman12
Established Member
Recently bought a 1970 house in Sussex which had cracks in the corners of the inside walls of an extension bedroom built over an original double garage. Our excellent tame builder reckoned they hadn't been tied into each other or the original walls. After we bought it we found the downpipes were all blocked and as far as we could tell the runs to the soakaways as well.
Did the "survey" bring any of this up? No of course not. I have a very dim view of surveyors and their reports. But that's just MHO. I'm sure there are brilliant ones out there but you never can find them. The only reason for having a survey is to satisfy insurance companies to give a stake in the sand - this was the state of the building when I bought it - maybe.
Anyway 9 months on walls are tied in and a new soakaway dug and we're really happy here, moreso when I've finished building my workshop this week.
Martin
Did the "survey" bring any of this up? No of course not. I have a very dim view of surveyors and their reports. But that's just MHO. I'm sure there are brilliant ones out there but you never can find them. The only reason for having a survey is to satisfy insurance companies to give a stake in the sand - this was the state of the building when I bought it - maybe.
Anyway 9 months on walls are tied in and a new soakaway dug and we're really happy here, moreso when I've finished building my workshop this week.
Martin
Terry - Somerset
Established Member
The survey on our recently purchased house was not very good - although I suspect this is common with most general surveys of 1980s properties.
However - back to the original question. If there are issues of real concern, employing a specialist to provide a focussed opinion would be sensible, particularly if rectification could be both costly and disruptive. I would not use a general building surveyor.
- predictably it was full of caveats - "could not see", "was not accessible", "was not tested" etc
- pointed out possible asbestos in soffits - suggested testing etc. Practical solution is to paint and leave unless replacement needed for another reason
- missed the fact that window hinges (UPVC double glazed) were seized to the point that some windows are close to parting company from the frame.
- did not mention that central heating system was 8mm which I now know has a reputation for problems
- no mention of a very old rewireable fuse box located 9ft up in the garage - now replaced with current consumer unit at a more sensible height
However - back to the original question. If there are issues of real concern, employing a specialist to provide a focussed opinion would be sensible, particularly if rectification could be both costly and disruptive. I would not use a general building surveyor.
Often fine cracks can appear where where two adjacent surface meet; i.e. wall - ceiling, or in a corner where two walls meet. Pro plasters usually apply scrim across those places to accommodate any natural movement/shrinkage; especially if one of those surface is plaster/wall board. But many cut coners and don't bother. Similarly the same scrim/tape is used acrcoss abutting plaster board edges. I don't see any evidence of sed scrim along ceilings joints.
Looking at the images/videos you post... I'm inclined to think shrinkage of plaster coupled with a lime mortar brick work Different coefficients of expansion between modern plaster and sed lime mortar. Other reasons cracks can occur... plaster wrong mix; dried out too fast; poor preparation overall.
Sometimes cracks may be evident on the associated outside walls; sometimes very fine but there nonetheless. If so then that needs serious investigation.
If you tap the affected ares does it sound firm or hollow compared to (hopefully) more secure/solid areas? If hollow sounding then the plaster has lost its key and for a recent plaster job that's not good.
But as previous by many here - get a full survey first... Not wise to buy/go in believing all the locals tell about their side of the wall(s). This is a major purchase.
Looking at the images/videos you post... I'm inclined to think shrinkage of plaster coupled with a lime mortar brick work Different coefficients of expansion between modern plaster and sed lime mortar. Other reasons cracks can occur... plaster wrong mix; dried out too fast; poor preparation overall.
Sometimes cracks may be evident on the associated outside walls; sometimes very fine but there nonetheless. If so then that needs serious investigation.
If you tap the affected ares does it sound firm or hollow compared to (hopefully) more secure/solid areas? If hollow sounding then the plaster has lost its key and for a recent plaster job that's not good.
But as previous by many here - get a full survey first... Not wise to buy/go in believing all the locals tell about their side of the wall(s). This is a major purchase.
Sadly many surveyors have get out of jail approaches/clauses in their reports; but fair to say not all are like that.
Don't rely on the bank/building society survey, have your own and a "full" detailed survey" not a kwikie...
Don't rely on the bank/building society survey, have your own and a "full" detailed survey" not a kwikie...
Thanks everybody for all the advice. If we get back into the property I'll be sure to do some more digging to see what the walls are, is there anything visible from the outside etc.
We have a couple of other niggling doubts so will weigh up whether we go for the offer and if we do I'll be sure to go for the full structural survey with the best surveyor/engineer I can find.
Love the wealth of knowledge here!
We have a couple of other niggling doubts so will weigh up whether we go for the offer and if we do I'll be sure to go for the full structural survey with the best surveyor/engineer I can find.
Love the wealth of knowledge here!
Qwercus
Established Member
Qwercus
Established Member
If the house is Victorian it will have been built using lime mortar which allows a certain amount of structural movement. However, the foundations won't be very deep - nowhere near the 1 metre required nowadays. My Son had an end-terrace house in SE7 which was built on very light subsoil (Greensand), although it was never in danger of collapsing parts of the outer walls had definitely settled at different levels. I think subsequent owners had it underpinned.
Almost all the Victorian brick structures I have seen where built using sand and cement mortar on massively over designed stepped brick foundations to increase the footprint of the building, its testement to the many that remain how well built they where, the only problems I have encountered where man made at a later date, mostly by neighbours.
See attached a couple of useful docs giving good basic info on structural issues.
New to this site, so hopefully they will upload ok, one is a MS Word doc, with a basic structural checklist showing what sort of things to look for. The 2nd is a MS powerpoint presentation giving basic info.
NB: I am not a structural surveyor or engineer, and you are advised to obtain professional advice, as above.
Hope it helps.
New to this site, so hopefully they will upload ok, one is a MS Word doc, with a basic structural checklist showing what sort of things to look for. The 2nd is a MS powerpoint presentation giving basic info.
NB: I am not a structural surveyor or engineer, and you are advised to obtain professional advice, as above.
Hope it helps.
Vertical extensions can overload the existing foundations and cause cracking, horizontal extension to an old building should never I will say it again never be tied into the existing structure without extensive below ground work, not worth it easier to put in a slip surface (Furfix Profiles) and flexibly tie the two together with appropriate weathering above ground and structural advice for the new foundations, for instance depth, whether to dowel bar into the existing with appropriate slip tubes, the list is extensive.
Bristol_Rob
Established Member
Those cracks don't indicate an immediate major problem, but clearly there is active movement. Understanding that is key.
If the property or the neighbours' property has had recent (in the last 5 years) extensions and conversations then that is where I'd start my line of questioning.
It's very easy to overwhelm/stress Victorian foundations with building projects.
Also, if there are any issues with cracking/drains and possible subsidence you should definitely pay for a drainage survey. So often people don't want to pay for that and find horror issues underground later on. Which sadly you will be responsible for.
Remember when you pay for a full building survey and have your initial concerns noted in the instructions, and you request that these are full explored - you are buying an insurance policy if they advise there are no issues. However, are you prepared for the surveyor telling you to spend more money exploring the issue?
If not then maybe moving on is best - whilst heartbreaking - there are plenty of properties that don't have movement issues to choose from.
Cash is King
If the property or the neighbours' property has had recent (in the last 5 years) extensions and conversations then that is where I'd start my line of questioning.
It's very easy to overwhelm/stress Victorian foundations with building projects.
Also, if there are any issues with cracking/drains and possible subsidence you should definitely pay for a drainage survey. So often people don't want to pay for that and find horror issues underground later on. Which sadly you will be responsible for.
Remember when you pay for a full building survey and have your initial concerns noted in the instructions, and you request that these are full explored - you are buying an insurance policy if they advise there are no issues. However, are you prepared for the surveyor telling you to spend more money exploring the issue?
If not then maybe moving on is best - whilst heartbreaking - there are plenty of properties that don't have movement issues to choose from.
Cash is King
