I read long ago that concrete block walls in gardens should be built with a DPC as they draw moisture from the surrounding soil in dry weather..
Damp Problem - I'm not sure what to do...
- Thread starter JoeS
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johna.clements
Established Member
Capillary action is not a myth.
But it is very easy for a cowboy selling damp proof causes to say that it is the cause of a problem. When their solution does not solve the problem they will say it has solved part of the problem, how can you disprove that.
But it is very easy for a cowboy selling damp proof causes to say that it is the cause of a problem. When their solution does not solve the problem they will say it has solved part of the problem, how can you disprove that.
johna.clements
Established Member
If it was not raining the water would be drawn up from close to the wall then evaporate. This would cool the wall maybe causing dew at night. I wonder if anybody has done any experiments on garden walls and the surrounding soil as a complete system. I would have thought the rain shadow effect of the wall would have a bigger effect on the surrounding but I have no evidence to back that up. A dpc would reduce the moisture above it and so most likely reduce frost damage.
I'm always suspicious of the amount of work done to victorian/edwardian properties in order to combat "rising damp" and other kinds of damp issues. Theses properties were built by people who knew what they were doing and you can normally trace damp problems to something stupid being done by a 21st century builder/not so handy man.
I have been slowly losing pressure in my central heating though... so i think the radiator pipe is going to be the first thing i inspect. I'll rip up a couple of tiles in the next couple days and see what is going on underneath.
Thanks very much for all the advice.
Nice. But alas your somewhat behind the curve on the up to date science of 'rising damp'The pair of you both missed out some very important words there.....ie "in my opinion".
During my working years both I, and colleagues, investigated hundreds of cases with external damp/internal condensation issues. In our opinions many of these WERE and many of these were NOT rising damp but all of us, being level headed persons (employed to undertake such roles) were not conceited enough to flat-out ignore the possibility.
I also look forward to reading your proof of 'flat earth' and other narrow minded beliefs. In my personal opinion I believe it's all nonsense but I'm always up for listening to any well presented argument and, in my opinion, you shouldn't either.
When your finished researching your beliefs on the flat earth
you may wish to re-evalute your understanding of 'rising damp'.It's arguably become one of the biggest rip offs in construction, and yes I do work in construction.
Anyway my post was meant to help the OP, but if others have amused themselves with some ridicule along the way then that makes me doubly happy
Also the opinion of the RICS, IstructE and the ARIBA, I think they are learned enough to be taken notice of.
Next myth, multi layer foil insulation.
Last edited:
Adam W.
A Major Clanger
Or fire resistant and safe PIR insulation, which seems to be the topic of the decade after the Grenfell disaster.
Lard
Established Member
I've read all your posts and you appear to be sufficiently well-versed in regard to the multitude of potential issues that could have caused your problem.
I've lost count of the number of times I've seen situations where work has been undertaken for completely the wrong reason and reasoning. Many of these, unfortunately, were financial - a great many being your example of older properties where the dpc companies simply diagnose based on the age of the property alone. It's very easy to trust any so-called professional if you've no one else to turn to.
The biggest problem you face is that it appears to be one of those that are not easily diagnosed and so you may end up have to undertake some deconstruction work simply to eliminate everything else.
As stated, you do seen to be someone who doesn't rule anything out so good on you. It's a shame everyone hasn't got the same common sense attitude.
Good luck with it.
johna.clements
Established Member
From RICCS PROPERTY JOURNAL
Author:
23 November 2020
...
...
In May 2017, after his studies at the University of Salford, Leslie Sellers published his thesis entitled Rising Damp Evaluation and Treatment: A Quasi-Experimental Case Study, for which he was awarded a doctorate in the built environment (DBEnv). For those interested in the damp debate it is worth the effort to read the 413-page document, and mainstream professionals working in this area should make themselves aware of his conclusions. These can be summarised as follows: "Rising damp is a real phenomenon that warrants treatment and the contemporary method of damp-proofing, installed as it would be on a real construction site, does provide effective control."
So, practitioners faced with angry clients who have become aware of the damp debate can now feel assured in pointing them to up-to-date research confirming that the defect identified in their survey report is a real phenomenon.
https://ww3.rics.org/uk/en/journals/property-journal/rising-damp-needs-continuing-research.html
Rising damp needs continuing research
Although long understood to be a problem by practitioners, rising damp could benefit from greater academic investigation
Author:
- Michael Cooper
- Andrew Thompson
23 November 2020
...
...
In May 2017, after his studies at the University of Salford, Leslie Sellers published his thesis entitled Rising Damp Evaluation and Treatment: A Quasi-Experimental Case Study, for which he was awarded a doctorate in the built environment (DBEnv). For those interested in the damp debate it is worth the effort to read the 413-page document, and mainstream professionals working in this area should make themselves aware of his conclusions. These can be summarised as follows: "Rising damp is a real phenomenon that warrants treatment and the contemporary method of damp-proofing, installed as it would be on a real construction site, does provide effective control."
So, practitioners faced with angry clients who have become aware of the damp debate can now feel assured in pointing them to up-to-date research confirming that the defect identified in their survey report is a real phenomenon.
https://ww3.rics.org/uk/en/journals/property-journal/rising-damp-needs-continuing-research.html
johna.clements
Established Member
You can provide a link to a RICS journal published after November 2020 that states that rising damp is a myth. If you can not do so what should we conclude.My thesis was on Diaphragm walls, modern practice has proved my hypothesis was incorrect, but I was still awarded a PhD for it, should I give it back?
Stevekane
Established Member
If the original poster runs out of ideas and advice that worked (as we did with a similar problem) you could try simple internal insulation useing polystyrene veneer covered in heavy duty lining paper. Our damp problem with dark damp patches and somtimes beads of moisture on the walls, with a deposits of salts adding to the problem, defied all the advice we were given, so about 4 years ago I cleaned up the wall and papered using the polystyrene and we have had no further problems. I think the problem was moisture, condensing in particular spots, creating salts which you can taste, and which of course add to the problem. It worked well for us.
Hopefully you will have discovered the culprit with the Central Heating losing pressure.
One thing to note (In my opinion
) -
If you have copper pipes rising from the floor they should be mechanically separated from any tile adhesive and or cement / floor screed.
Modern copper is woefully less able to deal with the acidic nature of most cementous materials and as such will disintegrate if in contact with said cement over a relatively short period of time.
I have seen 22mm copper literally eaten by corrosion and pinholed quite badly after 4 or 5 years when laid unprotected in both concrete and floor screed.
Generally plastic pipe is much better in these areas but failing that there are products such as petroleum based Denso tape which will protect copper pipe and I have also seen good results with simple aluminium foil tape applied to the copper (I have no idea on the makeup of aluminium foil tape adhesive !)
If the CH pipe is leaking at or under the floor you may be looking at very small pinholes which will be difficult to see, trust the evidence when you lift tiles. if the floor substrate is properly wet then I would opine a 99% chance of a leak even if the pipe appears not to be leaking.
And finally have you felt around the bottom of both radiator valves?
If in doubt run a dry piece of toilet paper tight around the nuts which connect to the pipes, often this will reveal a small damp spot on the tissue even though there was nothing visibly leaking. Again this is 20 years plus of experience talking. Many times over my continuing career have i attended "damp" problems only to locate and sort previously unseen simple water based issues.
One thing to note (In my opinion
) -If you have copper pipes rising from the floor they should be mechanically separated from any tile adhesive and or cement / floor screed.
Modern copper is woefully less able to deal with the acidic nature of most cementous materials and as such will disintegrate if in contact with said cement over a relatively short period of time.
I have seen 22mm copper literally eaten by corrosion and pinholed quite badly after 4 or 5 years when laid unprotected in both concrete and floor screed.
Generally plastic pipe is much better in these areas but failing that there are products such as petroleum based Denso tape which will protect copper pipe and I have also seen good results with simple aluminium foil tape applied to the copper (I have no idea on the makeup of aluminium foil tape adhesive !)
If the CH pipe is leaking at or under the floor you may be looking at very small pinholes which will be difficult to see, trust the evidence when you lift tiles. if the floor substrate is properly wet then I would opine a 99% chance of a leak even if the pipe appears not to be leaking.
And finally have you felt around the bottom of both radiator valves?
If in doubt run a dry piece of toilet paper tight around the nuts which connect to the pipes, often this will reveal a small damp spot on the tissue even though there was nothing visibly leaking. Again this is 20 years plus of experience talking. Many times over my continuing career have i attended "damp" problems only to locate and sort previously unseen simple water based issues.
johna.clements
Established Member
I would assume that the aluminium foil tape would act in a similar manner to zinc connected to steel.Hopefully you will have discovered the culprit with the Central Heating losing pressure.
One thing to note (In my opinion
If you have copper pipes rising from the floor they should be mechanically separated from any tile adhesive and or cement / floor screed.
Modern copper is woefully less able to deal with the acidic nature of most cementous materials and as such will disintegrate if in contact with said cement over a relatively short period of time.
I have seen 22mm copper literally eaten by corrosion and pinholed quite badly after 4 or 5 years when laid unprotected in both concrete and floor screed.
Generally plastic pipe is much better in these areas but failing that there are products such as petroleum based Denso tape which will protect copper pipe and I have also seen good results with simple aluminium foil tape applied to the copper (I have no idea on the makeup of aluminium foil tape adhesive !)
If the CH pipe is leaking at or under the floor you may be looking at very small pinholes which will be difficult to see, trust the evidence when you lift tiles. if the floor substrate is properly wet then I would opine a 99% chance of a leak even if the pipe appears not to be leaking.
And finally have you felt around the bottom of both radiator valves?
If in doubt run a dry piece of toilet paper tight around the nuts which connect to the pipes, often this will reveal a small damp spot on the tissue even though there was nothing visibly leaking. Again this is 20 years plus of experience talking. Many times over my continuing career have i attended "damp" problems only to locate and sort previously unseen simple water based issues.
All about as accurate as "RICCS property journal" can't seem to find that publication.
johna.clements
Established Member
johna.clements
Established Member
johna.clements
Established Member
I asked "You can provide a link to a RICS journal published after November 2020 that states that rising damp is a myth. If you can not do so what should we conclude."
I take it you can't.
I just wonder who funded the research that you incorrectly posted as being "RICCS Property Journal", there is no conclusion in that research that Rising Damp does or does not exists, it only concludes that further research is needed, as I said above who funded that research and paper? I am sure it was not just for academic interest and although published in the "RICS Property Journal" the articles are not endorsed by the RICS they are published for members information and discussion.
