Help with Stanley No4

[dm65]

Hi all

Recently got myself a well used No4, sharpened the blade and made shavings - yay, it works

After reading other threads on here, I am hoping someone can help me with its age - it has no patent dates, raised ring for the knob, painted black, raised casting at toe and heel and vertical writing on the adjustment lever

This seems to make it a type 19, but every other plane I've seen has two screws for the tote - this one has the stud at the back, but a cast peg at the front

Also, every other plane has been refurbished, very well, so I want know two things - how do you get all the original black paint off (including fiddly awkward bits) and whats the best way to refinish these ?

Any help appreciated

 

[G S Haydon]

Want to go to town on it http://www.majorpanic.com/Slide_Show.htm

My Record #4 refurb was not as drastic as this. However my block plane refurb did need striping back. I used some B&Q paint stripper and and some spray enamel paint http://gshaydon.co.uk/blog/page/2/ . Worked ok but not as full on as major panic

 

[AndyT]

If you like it because it's a particular age, I'd say the best thing to do with the japanning is to leave it just as it is. It won't detract from your use of the plane at all. Stripping and repainting could look like repairing veneered furniture with sticky backed plastic.

 

[dm65]

Want to go to town on it http://www.majorpanic.com/Slide_Show.htm

My Record #4 refurb was not as drastic as this. However my block plane refurb did need striping back. I used some B&Q paint stripper and and some spray enamel paint http://gshaydon.co.uk/blog/page/2/ . Worked ok but not as full on as major panic

Watched the entire slide show - that looks great - wonder if he fancy's doing a show on a No4

If you like it because it's a particular age, I'd say the best thing to do with the japanning is to leave it just as it is. It won't detract from your use of the plane at all. Stripping and repainting could look like repairing veneered furniture with sticky backed plastic.

I've got a few old planes Andy, because they're available for little outlay and am more about function than form but it does make me a bit envious when I see the transformation

This will be well used by me, but that tote I mentioned needs looking at as the hole has enlarged which allows movement plus, the japanning under the frog has mostly come away at the front which means the frog sits at an angle rather than parallel with the throat

I was thinking of cutting a rebate and dropping some oak in and redrilling with a brad point bit to fix the tote, but, looking at it again, perhaps a piece of dowel will do just as well ?

Are neither of you familiar with the tote on this thing ?

 

[G S Haydon]

dm65,

I'm no expert with the variations on planes but any smoother I have seen just has a peg and the long retention screw. When you move up to a #5 then you start to see the second screw. I think.

 

[dm65]

dm65,

I'm no expert with the variations on planes but any smoother I have seen just has a peg and the long retention screw. When you move up to a #5 then you start to see the second screw. I think.

Oh, ok then, if its normal then I'll stick with a type 19 (end of the day it matters not as I will be using this)

My No5 does have the second screw as you said, but I have definitely seen 4's on here with the second screw as well - I wonder if they are 4 1/2's - hmmm

Anyway, thanks for replying, it was worth posting just to see that slideshow

 

[G S Haydon]

I know Den, It's the most full on "Pimp my Plane" I've seen.

 

[marcros]

One comment from the slide show... I thought it was advised not to use stainless as the sacrificial anode. I forget the chemistry but doesn't it give off a pretty nasty gas- chromium presumably.

 

[dm65]

One comment from the slide show... I thought it was advised not to use stainless as the sacrificial anode. I forget the chemistry but doesn't it give off a pretty nasty gas- chromium presumably.

Noticed that - I've read that carbon graphite or steel rod is the best to use, but its another example of how well the procedure works

I have this article stored for the future - http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/show ... p?t=154196 - and from it, I have copied this ...

IMPORTANT HEALTH SAFETY NOTE: You should never, never, never ever use stainless steel for your anodes. Stainless steel contains chromium and it will cause hexavalent chromium (chromium VI) to precipitate out into your electrolyte. Hexavalent chromium is a nasty carcinogen and is responsible for several Superfund cleanup sites. Take a look at http://www.hexavalentchromiumdangers.com/ to see for yourself how bad this stuff is.

 

[Vann]

After reading other threads on here, I am hoping someone can help me with its age - it has no patent dates, raised ring for the knob, painted black, raised casting at toe and heel and vertical writing on the adjustment lever

This seems to make it a type 19, but every other plane I've seen has two screws for the tote - this one has the stud at the back, but a cast peg at the front

This is an English made plane so you won't find any patent dates etc. The plane type studies track the development of the USA models - they do not apply to English made planes (except that the first English Stanleys were based on the USA type 16).

So to date your plane: Hmmm. Well the blade is curve topped, so probably later than mid-1950s.
The yoke is bright plated. I think the yokes were black painted until the change to fabricated yokes ~1960s. Stanley (UK) went back to cast (not necessarily cast iron) yoke in the mid 1970s - complete with bright finish.
In the late 1960s they changed from brass adjuster wheel to plated steel wheel, and then back to brass in the mid 1970s. They changed to aluminium handle nuts and back to brass around the same times. Yours are brass.
Around 1980 Stanley started putting 5 digit numbers on the planes, and put grooves in the frog mating surfaces (to further reduce the amount of machining required). Yours predates these changes.

So I can say for certain mid-1950s to 1980. Probably mid 1970s to 1980 - but I could be wrong about the plated yokes, in which case there is also a window before the end of the 1960s.

Confused? You should be (I am).

Oh, and the toe screw is not fitted to No.3 & no.4 planes - only from No.4 1/2 up.

HTH.

Cheers, Vann.

 

[AndyT]

Vann, as far as I know no one has written a dating guide to English made Stanley planes. Have you ever thought of writing one up on here? I suspect you might be able to illustrate it quite easily but if there are any gaps in your selection I'm sure others will fill them in.

 

[G S Haydon]

One comment from the slide show... I thought it was advised not to use stainless as the sacrificial anode. I forget the chemistry but doesn't it give off a pretty nasty gas- chromium presumably.

Noticed that - I've read that carbon graphite or steel rod is the best to use, but its another example of how well the procedure works

I have this article stored for the future - http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/show ... p?t=154196 - and from it, I have copied this ...

IMPORTANT HEALTH SAFETY NOTE: You should never, never, never ever use stainless steel for your anodes. Stainless steel contains chromium and it will cause hexavalent chromium (chromium VI) to precipitate out into your electrolyte. Hexavalent chromium is a nasty carcinogen and is responsible for several Superfund cleanup sites. Take a look at http://www.hexavalentchromiumdangers.com/ to see for yourself how bad this stuff is.

Thanks for the heads up. Not tried this method yet, but if I do stainless will not be used.

 

[dm65]

Vann - thanks for the comprehensive reply, you obviously know your stuff

AndyT - I am an idiot, I had read on this forum before that all these dating guides were for the US models - doh

Vann, as far as I know no one has written a dating guide to English made Stanley planes. Have you ever thought of writing one up on here? I suspect you might be able to illustrate it quite easily but if there are any gaps in your selection I'm sure others will fill them in.

Edited as I didn't read AndyT's post properly and made a similar suggestion - sorry Andy

 

[Vann]

Vann, as far as I know no one has written a dating guide to English made Stanley planes. Have you ever thought of writing one up on here? I suspect you might be able to illustrate it quite easily but if there are any gaps in your selection I'm sure others will fill them in.

Okay, you've got me interested. It will take a little time to get what little I know together. Most dating will be to the nearest decade.... :|

Vann - ...you obviously know your stuff.

Huh, I wish...

I'm regretting now, that I have disposed of several Stanleys in favour of Record planes #-o (thereby depleting my research dase).

Cheers, Vann.