Help choosing a Tenon Saw please.

[Sawyer]

Jacob - I agree about Spear & Jackson & Footprint - both excellent saws for anybody prepared to ignore fashion and certainly worth looking out for 2nd hand ones. My Footprint 12" tenon saw is first rate, but like most of their tools, would not win any beauty contests.

I still cut tenon cheeks by hand quite often: standard tenon saw for small ones, but a 26" ripsaw if larger.

I decided to re-file a decent 12" 13tpi crosscut backsaw to rip teeth and the difference was amazing. By counting saw strokes I concluded that it takes just 1/3 of the time to make the same cut with a normal c/c tenon saw of the same tooth size. Accurate too.

 

[scubadoo]

Does anyone know what this one is, I'm trying to track it down on the Flinn website so i can see if it's crosscut.

http://www.dm-tools.co.uk/product.php/s ... PWPAXTEN12

-edit-

just found it, it does come in rip or crosscut. What makes the £100 Pax (and others) saws better than this?

 

[Cheshirechappie]

I think that's the Pax model that Flinn Garlick offered as their top-of-the-range saw before they introduced the Pax 1776 range. On that basis, you won't find a better blade, and if you really can't stand the handle after a good settling-in period, you could always make another. (For some reason, apple is a 'traditional' wood for saw handles, but anything reasonably hard and resistant to splitting will do.)

I think the reason that 'nice' handled saws cost significantly more is the amount of handwork required to finish the shaping on them. Labour costs money, so half-an-hour of extra time at the factory may add £25 - £30 to the price. I suspect that part of the problem is that most saw-makers don't have the volume of production to justify in-house CNC routers for handle production, so buy out, and are a bit restricted in what they can get for the price they pay. The only real criticism levelled against Flinn Garlick's saws has been the unpleasant handles they've fitted, possibly for this reason. With the Pax 1776 range, they seem to be trying to improve, but at a consequent increase in price.

LN take the view that they make premium tools, make and finish handles in-house or very closely to their specification, and charge accordingly. Flinn Garlick offer both premium and good-quality-but-not-pretty ranges. Yer pays yer money and yer takes...

 

[Jacob]

I'd just take a punt on a selection from ebay. They won't all be bad but even if they are it'd be educational.
I sold a picturesque but knackered Tyzack on ebay for £17.I bought a very trim, hardly used, top class, S&J for £8. A much better saw by far. It doesn't look too hot in the picture but as soon as you pick it up you sense quality and good design.
Both these saws were much better value than any of the new ones on offer.
There's a glut of good quality old tools at the moment. It won't last forever!

 

[Cheshirechappie]

Jacob - that's fair comment, but it doesn't answer Scubadoo's original question. Quote, "I want something that is new, and comes sharp."

We all get to saw-sharpening eventually, but one step at a time. One advantage of buying good quality new saws is that you get a fair idea of what a sharp saw feels like, so when you sharpen for the first time, you know what you're aiming for. If you never have a sharp saw, you'll never know.

Once you've invested in saw files and saw-sets, made a couple of saw vices, and learned how to use them, then ebay clunkers will be bargains. If you don't have the files etc, then a blunt saw is no use whatever however cheap it might be.

 

[Jacob]

...w.

Once you've invested in saw files and saw-sets, made a couple of saw vices, and learned how to use them, then ebay clunkers will be bargains. If you don't have the files etc, then a blunt saw is no use whatever however cheap it might be.

Or just whip round to your local saw doctor for a shampoo and set. £5 or so extra to make a very good saw.

PS all the new ones will need sharpening too eventually, so there is no hiding place! :shock:

 

[Cheshirechappie]

Or just whip round to your local saw doctor for a shampoo and set. £5 or so extra to make a very good saw.

PS all the new ones will need sharpening too eventually, so there is no hiding place! :shock:[/quote]

The guy wants to buy it and use it, not faff about for a fortnight; that also assumes that there is a saw doctor less than two gallons of petrol away. Just looked in our local Yellow Pages. Nothing. Zilch. Nada.

£10 ebay clunker + £5 postage + £5 saw-doctor + £10 petrol to-and-from twice + time getting it there and back = getting on for cheaper to buy new!

As for "all the new ones will need sharpening too evetually" that's why I said, "We all get to sharpening eventually."

 

[GazPal]

Spear & Jackson Professional = A solid Tenon Saw with 12" universal blade (Capable of rip and cross-cutting) and decent cut depth, blade heft, plus comfortable grip.

Brand new

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Spear-Jackson ... 1000wt_952

You can always invest in another at a later date and have one dressed for rip and the other dressed for cross cutting and have two professional quality saws for comparatively little above the price of a single Pax saw.

Older counterparts are available cheaply on evilbay with blades ranging between 8", 10", 12" and 14" and they take an exceptional and durable edge when re-sharpened.

OR

Test drive an Irwin Jack 12" tenon saw at a fraction of the price and you'll gain a sense of a decently put together throw away saw (Unless the hard-point teeth are filed off and re-cut when sharpening time arrives).

Two offerings from different camps that are capable of serving their intended purpose extremely well.

 

[DTR]

The 'ideal' solution for a cabinetmaker is probably to have at least three backsaws...

I've heard that quoted before (small rip, medium crosscut, large rip) and the idea certainly works for a novice like me.

I bought a very trim, hardly used, top class, S&J for £8. A much better saw by far. It doesn't look too hot in the picture but as soon as you pick it up you sense quality and good design.

I have the 14" version of one of these, I am very happy with it.

 

[Mr Ed]

How about this ?

http://www.axminster.co.uk/victor-victo ... prod23597/

Made by Thomas Flinn, decent blade, I've tried the handle and found it quite comfortable, it's a British made saw for £50 - I'm thinking of having one.

I had a chat with the lady at Thomas Flinn about handles and she said they have recently improved the shape, which includes Pax, Lynx walnut and this one.

Ed

 

[scubadoo]

I'd just take a punt on a selection from ebay. They won't all be bad but even if they are it'd be educational.
I sold a picturesque but knackered Tyzack on ebay for £17.

So if i take a punt on ebay I could be the proud owner of one of your knackered old saws! :wink: How come you haven't sharpened it? :wink:

Like I keep saying, i NEED something new for immediate use. My little 2 year old needs that bed fast!

Thanks for all the input though Jacob

 

[scubadoo]

Spear & Jackson Professional = A solid Tenon Saw with 12" universal blade (Capable of rip and cross-cutting) and decent cut depth, blade heft, plus comfortable grip.

OR

Test drive an Irwin Jack 12" tenon saw at a fraction of the price and you'll gain a sense of a decently put together throw away saw (Unless the hard-point teeth are filed off and re-cut when sharpening time arrives).

Worth thinking about, thanks.

Yeah, i currently have one of those Irwin saws, it's fine for what it is.

 

[scubadoo]

I think that's the Pax model that Flinn Garlick offered as their top-of-the-range saw before they introduced the Pax 1776 range. On that basis, you won't find a better blade, and if you really can't stand the handle after a good settling-in period, you could always make another. (For some reason, apple is a 'traditional' wood for saw handles, but anything reasonably hard and resistant to splitting will do.)

So that may be the one to get. Is there any reason why I couldn't just reshape that handle if I wanted to?

 

[scubadoo]

HAs anyone used the Lynx one with the beech handle from Flinn's? Just over £50

http://www.1066tools.co.uk/tools/Lynx_T ... andle.html

At the moment I think I'm leaning towards the PAx for £70, can't really justify anymore as I won't be using it that often.

 

[Paul Chapman]

I'd just take a punt on a selection from ebay. They won't all be bad but even if they are it'd be educational.
I sold a picturesque but knackered Tyzack on ebay for £17.

So if i take a punt on ebay I could be the proud owner of one of your knackered old saws! :wink:

:lol: :lol:

Just about sums up the wisdom of buying from ebay :wink:

 

[Jacob]

.....
So if i take a punt on ebay I could be the proud owner of one of your knackered old saws! :wink: How come you haven't sharpened it? ...

Nice handle? I did say it needed attention so you would have been put off, I hope.

 

[Mr Ed]

HAs anyone used the Lynx one with the beech handle from Flinn's? Just over £50

http://www.1066tools.co.uk/tools/Lynx_T ... andle.html

At the moment I think I'm leaning towards the PAx for £70, can't really justify anymore as I won't be using it that often.

According to the lady at Flinn's the beech lynx saws don't have the refined handle shape, but the one I posted on the previous page does and is still only £50.

 

[scubadoo]

I went for the £70 Pax in the end, more than enough saw for my needs.

I totally understand the point of buying from ebay and sharpening and I'd like to learn how to do it but there're too many other things lined up to do/learn at the moment so i just wanted something i can use out of the box.

Thanks everyone for all the advice in this and my other recent threads.

 

[GazPal]

Pax is a sound choice of a well made saw with solid backup via the manufacturer. Here's to many years enjoyment.

 

[James C]

What size Tenon saw with what TPI do people have?

The current S&J I use is 12" @ 15tpi crosscut. Haven't got a rip or dovetail yet.