Handcutting Dovetails - A Question.

[mambo]

ok thanks philly got them coming from amazon now

 

[Routermonster]

Hi All

A parcel from Amazon arrived today (SWMBO: "What's this, haven't you got enough books already?") ...

In it were David C's third book on Furniture-making Techniques and Robert Wearing's "Making Woodwork Aids & Devices" (ISBN-10 1861081294 ... currently £5.93). This book has a description of Woodbloke's dovetail marker on Pages 49 and 50!

And what with David's article on marking out dovetails using dividers and Woodbloke's excellent pictures above, I've got no excuse for not having a go!

Thanks Guys.

Les

 

[George_N]

Rob, Thanks for the very clear tutorial. Deceptively simple but very effective. Like all really good ideas you're left thinking...now why didn't I think of that?...And thanks all for the book/DVD advice. I feel a bookcase project coming on (with dovetails, of course).

 

[bugbear]

Yup, about the best D/T marker that's not on the market...well worth the time and little effort needed to make it ...this one made to 1:7 slope - Rob

can we see it please with dimensions would be nice

Here's a "version" ...

https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=9690

BugBear :wink:

 

[woodbloke]

Yup, about the best D/T marker that's not on the market...well worth the time and little effort needed to make it ...this one made to 1:7 slope - Rob

can we see it please with dimensions would be nice

The marker is shown against a 150mm rule for comparison. Made from 3mm acrylic plastic (perspex), slots milled with a 6mm router cutter, couple of small coach bolts and wing nuts with an oddment of rosewood as the stock, though any half respectable timber would do...some care needed to file out the 1:7 slope of the triangle
Hope of some help

David - I have both the Alan Peter's book and Joyce's book and the divider method appears in neither of them as you say, which is odd to say the least - Rob

 

[Alf]

Okie-dokie, chillun', why is it the best dovetail marker not on the market? Sure I could read why Bob Wearing thinks so, but user testimonials are preferable. At the moment I'm pretty convinced the one I use is the best, but my mind is open to persuasion otherwise.

Cheers, Alf

 

[woodbloke]

Alf wrote:

why is it the best dovetail marker not on the market?

.....ooooerr, got to justify it now :-k . First and foremost, being a parsimonious sort of chap I resent slightly having to pay for one of these even though its a nice little trinket to own and probably works beautifully...Bob Wearing's excellent design cost about 20p to make. Second and foremost, its quite big to use, not fiddly. Third and foremost, if you ever needed to produce skewed dovetails (where the sides of the box, if that's whats being made, slope) then all that's required is to alter the stock to the correct angle. Fourth and finally, if you ever need to make big dovetails, as on my bench, this little tool will mark them out.....Having said all that, a sliding bevel will do the same job :lol: - Rob

 

[Paul Chapman]

Rob showed me his dovetail marker when I visited him last week and he demonstrated his method of marking out dovetails. I must say, I was impressed with his marker. It felt very comfortable to use and I think the fact that it is made of transparent material and therefore doesn't obscure the work is an advantage. I was sufficiently impressed that I intend to make one like Rob's rather than buy one of the commercially available markers.

Cheers :wink:

Paul

 

[woodbloke]

Rob showed me his dovetail marker when I visited him last week and he demonstrated his method of marking out dovetails. I must say, I was impressed with his marker. It felt very comfortable to use and I think the fact that it is made of transparent material and therefore doesn't obscure the work is an advantage. I was sufficiently impressed that I intend to make one like Rob's rather than buy one of the commercially available markers.

Cheers :wink:

Paul

Got your material for that Paul? :wink: :lol: - Rob

 

[Paul Chapman]

Got your material for that Paul? :wink: :lol:

Yes thanks :wink: :lol:

Cheers :wink:

Paul

 

[David C]

Dividers and the thing Rob showed are surely the most efficient way.

Only you make the thing yourself as shown in my third book, or Joyce come to that.

Much as I like the Wearing device it relys on centre lines and the use of a square, and a ruler and a means of projecting all those parallel lines.

The thing marks square and sloped line from one device and with dividers you need no measuring.

David

 

[mambo]

did i mention i got a cnc router

 

[Mittlefehldt]

Just to add some more fuel to the fire, I use the divider method as advocated by Rob Cosman, and I have both angles of the LV dovetail gauges, plus a shopmade marking gauge similar to the Lie Nielson shown in the above link.

Where I do it different is, after I have marked the lines across the end grain I simply tilt the stuff using the guide to indicate the angle of tilt. Once that is done I simply align the dovetail saw with the cross lines and saw straight down, to the scribe line. Tilt the board the other way again aligning it with the same gauge and do the same to the rest of the lines.

In short I don't bother marking the sides, only the cross lines, and it works fine.

 

[Philly]

M
You are nearly at the Frank Klausz "eyeball-and-go" method by the sounds of it! :lol:
Philly

 

[bugbear]

Okie-dokie, chillun', why is it the best dovetail marker not on the market? Sure I could read why Bob Wearing thinks so, but user testimonials are preferable. At the moment I'm pretty convinced the one I use is the best, but my mind is open to persuasion otherwise.
Cheers, Alf

Because it marks both sides of the tail at one placement. The size of the DT is adjusted by moving the stock up and down. (my version has a centre line marked on the stock).

So you mark the CENTRES of your DT's, place the centre line of the template on each mark, and inscribe both DT lines at one setting.

Hmm. (googling) This ones's interesting,. and related...

http://www.fine-tools.com/schmie.htm

I'm sure there used to be an expensive and higly gizmoid little template with movable (and interchangeable) pins, but I can't find it.

BugBear

 

[Alf]

Right, so it's mainly down to preference for whether you want your slope and 90° lines to be done "in one" or want the width of your tails done "in one" and on centres. I have a nagging feeling in a F&C (iirc?) article on it that the benefit of sizing the socket to the chisel size was touted, but no-one seems to think that a feature? Wasn't sure about it myself, and indeed I may be seriously mis-remembering the whole thing.

FWIW, I favour the Cosmanesque/'Spensive LN design 'cos I like removing that extra possibility of error creeping in when squaring across the lines with a separate square. I started out with a wooden version that works very well, but couldn't resist making a fancier one in acrylic:



Okay, truth be told I thought it'd be cool to use a dovetail to make a dovetail marker.



For skews, this cheat seems to make life pretty easy - although I'm forced to slum it with a mini sliding bevel (a memento of the Good Woodworking Show at Ally Pally in, ooo, '97. Anyone else go? Sorry, I'm digressing again...)



Yeah, I can see the Wearing design has points in its favour, if they're the features you prefer. Best though? Nah, not convinced, gents. :wink:

Cheers, Alf

 

[Paul Chapman]

Okay, truth be told I thought it'd be cool to use a dovetail to make a dovetail marker.

Now that is cool, Alf, and nicely done 8) 8)

Cheers :wink:

Paul

 

[David C]

Bugbear,

I have the gizmo and never use it...

David

 

[Wendell]

I'm sure there used to be an expensive and higly gizmoid little template with movable (and interchangeable) pins, but I can't find it.

BugBear

Are thinking of the one Kingshott shows in his dovetail video? It has two sets of pins ( 1:6 & 1:8 ) and cool looking brass knobs. He states that it was made by Richard Kell but I can't seem to find it anymore. I know I found it on the web like five years ago when I first saw the video. It looks like Kell is now producing a much simpler dovetail marker design instead.

Wendell

 

[bugbear]

Right, so it's mainly down to preference for whether you want your slope and 90° lines to be done "in one" or want the width of your tails done "in one" and on centres.

Yeah - in truth, I think that DT marking is (actually) easy enough that all these solutions are probably over kill, and come down (as you say) to preferance, since there's no strong neccessity for them.

BugBear