First post, first project, many questions...

[bril]

Hello fellow woodworkers!

I'm new around here, although I've been reading your excellent forum for a while.

In fact I've been a 'virtual woodworker' for several years, by way of subscriptions to Fine Woodworking and Popular Woodworking... well-thumbed copies of the Workbench Book, The Seven Essentials of Woodworking, Thos Moser's How to build Shaker Furniture, Christian Becksvoort's The Shaker Legacy... and of course regularly reading this forum.

But now, thanks to a small inheritance from my Mum spent on tools, and my final reluctant acceptance of retirement, I've got started!

My first project is this workshop cabinet, based on a 'Shaker Tinware Cupboard' article by Christian Becksvoort downloaded from the FW website, and intended as a practice run at using my new tools.

I've learned a lot from this project, but I'd still appreciate some feedback on these (sorry) long and complicated topics:

1. Because this was a 'practice' project, I decided to use 15 mm birch plywood for the case, and 19 mm solid wood for the face frames. I couldn't find solid birch for the face frames to match the plywood anywhere, so I bought PAR beech from British Hardwoods. I personally don't like the contrasting colour of beech and birch, but ironically that's the thing most of my friends first admire. Perhaps I should have used maple instead of beech for the face frames?

2. I don't have a planer/thicknesser, band-saw or hand planes, so I wonder how I'd do similar projects in future with solid wood throughout. The 'small order-friendly' wood merchants I have found on the internet (BH and South London Hardwoods) only seem to offer 19 mm thick PAR hardwoods. Should I buy a thicknesser, and knock this 19 mm PAR down to 16 mm, or would it be best to get a planer/thicknesser and start to buy sawn stock? I don't have much room, and I'm not keen on all the noise and dust from either of these, but I've assumed that hand planing the stock for a project of this size would be beyond both my skills and patience.

3. If in future I go down the thicknesser route using PAR stock, I noticed a glowing review for a US-only DeWalt DW735 thicknesser at http://www.popularwoodworking.com/features/planers.0204.pdf, which includes an integral dust blower that eliminates the need for a dust collector. (I do have a vacuum set-up with my Festool CS70 table saw and power tools, but I've barely got room for a thicknesser, further less a large dust collector). This interesting US site http://www.maxtool.co.uk/index/dw_Planers.asp offers UK shipping on the DW735, along with a 'UK 230v to 115v Step Down Transformer'. Is this an OK solution?

4. I'm about to finish the cupboard with Danish oil. But I read that it's better to use shellac on the inside of cabinets to avoid lingering solvent smells. So I bought some, ready mixed in a bottle. Then I remembered I want to protect the shelves from spillages, and that shellac is poor protection for water stains. Should I revert to Danish oil for the inside, or is there something better? Maybe milk paint -- would this work as a translucent wash?

5. My final confession is that I used a biscuit joiner for all the joints on this project. I did this because it's a practice run, and I learned that even a biscuit jointer needs care and experience to use accurately. (I didn't check for grit and shavings beneath the base plate, and had to fill and re-cut several slots.) So my final question is: would it be wrong to keep on using a biscuit joiner instead of 'proper' joints on future projects? My biscuit joints seem strong and invisible now, but how well will they last?

Thanks for all the information and inspiration I've already gleaned from this forum, and thanks (hopefully) in advance for your feedback!

Brian L

 

[Geordie Joiner]

First Project?

Some how I would think not. Check out the Festool.

GJ

Only joking welcome.

 

[engineer one]

well brian, don't complain that looks good for the first, and frankly we
should all be so lucky.

contrasting woods are always an intreguing idea, but few would use
birch as solid wood because of the wastage factor.

i think biscuits are fine, the most important thing is to learn to do things,
and biscuits give you a chance to learn really important skills like measuring and cutting before getting too precious about your joints.

the important thing is to enjoy, finish things, and learn.

as for the planer/ thicknesser i have one, and i do see the value, but
maybe you should look for other sources of wood, or even use thicker
wood anyway. i can see no logic in reducing the thickness from 19 to 16mm, it will not i think have too much impact, and for edge thickness
etc, you can always use tricks like putting curves or other shapes on
edges to thin them visually. for the moment stay with the thicker wood, and just make good projects like the one shown.

aas you grow in confidence, you will look for better methods and finishing
systems, but you can only try and when you find a road block, ask
someone will have the right answer.

others are more knowledgeable about finishing than me.

paul :wink:

 

[Philly]

Hi Brian
Welcome to the forum!!
A great first project-it looks smashing. I'd go for the shellac inside and see how you get on.
Cheers
Philly

 

[Shady]

Blimey!! Welcome, and if that's your first project, you have no problems... Very nice.

 

[Colin C]

Hi bril
I have to agree with all of the above and say :shock: if that is your first job, very well done
I would also go with the shellac inside too, it should be fine as long as water is not sitting on the surface for long.
I also agree with what engineer one has said too

 

[engineer one]

aw shucks colin

the thing to remember about shellac is that it is affected by water, but once
the spirits have "gone off" it is quite strong. it has been around long enough, and still there are few products which better it.

the thing to do is to ensure that wet things do not stand around too long.
white rings on antique tables are due to the shellac being stained, but reasonably easy to remove aren't they colin???

Oh to have had the budget to buy Festo from the get go.

paul :wink:

 

[Jake]

Oh to have had the budget to buy Festo from the get go.

paul :wink:

Not sure that the source makes that envy too appropriate.

 

[engineer one]

shucks Jake now i am really embarrassed

you know what they say, you have to learn somehow
when i bought the gear i have Festo did not have the local
presence i could check on, now they have
my budget is slightly singed, still can't complain about
what i have done with the gear i have, all i have to do is
learn to take and down load proper photos :lol: :lol:
thanks to dave l i am slowly learning.

paul :wink:

 

[Colin C]

White ring can some times be easy to get rid of but some time you will have to strip it ( you will only get white rings if water has been on for a while )

 

[Scrit]

Hi Bril and welcome to the forum.

That's quite a first project and I feel you should be congratulated on it.

A lot of questions have been answered, but I'll add a bit if I may:

1..... I couldn't find solid birch for the face frames to match the plywood anywhere, so I bought PAR beech from British Hardwoods. I personally don't like the contrasting colour of beech and birch, but ironically that's the thing most of my friends first admire. Perhaps I should have used maple instead of beech for the face frames?

Maple or sycamore (which has the advantage of being native grown - much maple is imported - and therefore cheaper). I have to admit not seeing much birch on sale in timber merchants, though John Boddy did used to carry it. Not particularly nice to work in the solid as a lot of it is very knotty.

Another alternative might be to stain the birch to match the beech in future projects.

2. .......Should I buy a thicknesser, and knock this 19 mm PAR down to 16 mm, or would it be best to get a planer/thicknesser and start to buy sawn stock?

If you do a site search you should come up with techniques discussed on this site about to plane on a thicknesser - not ideal, but much quicker than doing it by hand. Downside is that you can't joint the edges square in a thicknesser, although a circular saw/straight edge/bench/jointer plane will do jut as well. You will find, however, that a thicknesser generates more chips and larger chips than many vacuum cleaners can handle. An hour's planing can easily generate 4 or 5 black bin bags full of shavings.

5. My final confession is that I used a biscuit joiner for all the joints on this project. I did this because it's a practice run, and I learned that even a biscuit jointer needs care and experience to use accurately. (I didn't check for grit and shavings beneath the base plate, and had to fill and re-cut several slots.) So my final question is: would it be wrong to keep on using a biscuit joiner instead of 'proper' joints on future projects? My biscuit joints seem strong and invisible now, but how well will they last?

Not being a purist I think that whatever you do to achieve a result is between you and your conscience! :lol: Biscuits are certainly a way to produce a carcass very quickly and will help you produce pieces to get you going and build-up your experience. The only thing I would caution you about with biscuits is to allow the joints to dry thoroughly (at least 24 hours, preferably more) before finishing any piece made with solid wood and biscuits. This is because the moisture in the glue can cause swelling in the wood fibres which takes a day or so to disappear. Sand too early and this shrinkage as the timber reaches equilibrium can leave visible biscuit shapes telegraphed to the surface of the joint.

Scrit

 

[Newbie_Neil]

Brian

Well done and what an excellent first project.

Have you been taking lessons from Philly on drive-by gloats? :lol:

Cheers
Neil

 

[Ulrich]

Hallo Brian,

gratulation - that looks splendid and really not as if it were your first project! I have experienced similar problems with the small range of woods and dimensions commercially available, if you can't thickness the necessary quantities from solid wood yourself. That's the reason why I have purchased a planer/thicknesser a long time before and would not give it up any more - you just gain a lot of new possibilities in furniture design by this very useful tool. Since I am German woodworker I don't know the British market, but at least in Germany there are very good benchtop planer/thicknessers, which can give you almost all the possibilities of larger machines, but can be put away under the bench or on a shelf after use. Well renowned in Germany is for example the planer/thicknesser AD 160 from Mafell:
http://www.mafell.de/englisch/produkte/prod_hobeln_fr.htm

May be this one could be a good compromise, if you have not much room left in your workshop?

Best wishes

Ulrich

 

[Alf]

Welcome to the forum, Brian.

Personally I think it stinks. I'm sick to death of people claiming such-and-such is a "first project" when evidentally they've been doing it for years. C'mon, come clean, you stinker... :wink:

Now I've got that off me chest...

1. How's about veneered sheet materials to match your solid wood, instead of t'other way round. All you Festool folks are always telling us how good it is at clean cuts. :wink:

2. There's some stuff in the archive on whether it's worth biting on the bullet and getting sawn stock and a P/T - here's a typical one.

3. Dunno. Have a look at Adam's workshop and see if you really don't have enough space for a dust-ex.

4. By all means put Danish Oil inside. It's a sure fire route to make sure you never do it again... :lol: The shellac will be fine and if it's not it's an easy enough repair.

5. I agree with Scrit; the biscuit jointer is between you and that little voice. If you find yourself looking at a perfectly acceptable-looking piece of your work and wishing you'd not used biscuits to join it, you're probably ready to change.

Cheers, Alf

 

[Scrit]

That machine (the AD160) is imported into the UK by NMA Agencies. I've seen a couple of joiners using them on site as they are so portable.

Scrit

 

[Les Mahon]

Cracking first project Bril.

On the Planner / Thicknesser question, I used to get a local joinery firm to prepare the stock to a cutting list before I had a P/T, it is certainly not cheap as I was paying by the hour, but if space is a real premium then it might be worth investigating.

Finishing is still a balck art to me, so I won't comment, but biscuits are just fine by me.

I'm seriously impressed by the latching mecahnisim, especcialy for a first project, I would never have tried that, in fact I doubt I'd have thought to try it before seeing yours!

Les

 

[dedee]

Brian
I can't add anything to you technical questions but your "first" :?: piece is something you should be proud of.
I really like that door catch - very neat.

I'm looking forward to your second piece

Andy

 

[bril]

Thanks for all your feedback, both positive and negative!

Being told by Alf that my first post 'stinks' isn't a very good start! Since I've admired Alf's beautiful writing, good sense and humour for a long time, I reckon I'd better think hard about her comments...

I've read extensively about woodworking almost as a relaxing hobby in itself for several years before I retired, so I've acquired quite a lot of knowledge without practical experience. My last attempt at woodworking was over 30 years ago, when I made a bench, a bed and a wall cabinet from the Readers Digest DIY Book. (All these were screwed together from chipboard and planks of pine, so I still feel justified in looking at this new cabinet as my first proper furniture project.)

Since then I only did occasional shelf-mounting DIY, until two years ago when I had some woodworking lessons in making a garage door. After that I kick-started my new hobby by buying several Festool power tools. I reckoned that I'd enjoy using high quality well-thought-out equipment, and that the guilt in spending a lot of money would force me to commit the time to using them properly. I've learned to use my new table saw, router and biscuit joiner on this project; working at glacial speed, checking and re-checking settings, testing on scrap wood, and re-making everything that's gone wrong.

The design of biscuit-joined cabinets requires many parts to be cut with exactly the same dimensions, so using a table saw at a fixed setting means everything then fits together with real machine precision. My perceived skills on this project will instantly disappear when I try to reproduce this precision using mortice and tenon frames or dovetailed cabinets!

However, I think that it's this lack of precision in hand-made furniture that makes it so attractive. It's easy to achieve precision with a machine and lots of time and care, but I hugely admire the woodworker who can work fast and confidently to a 'good-enough' level of accuracy.

For the latches on this cabinet I drilled-out three of the 1/4 inch mortices using a drill guide on a portable drill and cleaned them out laboriously with a wide chisel. But for the fourth mortice I followed instructions from a book and chiselled it out entirely with a 1/4 inch chisel. For me it was a breakthrough moment to discover that although all this chopping was done at right angles to the length of the mortice, it still left a good-enough straight edge at each side of the chisel. (I wonder how this works -- I guess that cutting must actually take place at the sides of the chisel as well as the cutting edge.) Quicker and much neater than lots of mis-aligned drill holes.

Alf, I'll also take your advice on avoiding Danish oil inside. Veneered sheet materials make great sense, but hopefully I'll head in the opposite direction to use solid wood. I understand what you mean by that 'little voice'.

Ulrich and Scrit: Thank you, the Mafell AD160 looks ideal for me. I just wonder whether its limited width is likely to be restrictive. I guess the advantages in having a compact planer/thicknesser outweigh the disadvantages of having to join several 6 inch wide pieces for wider panels?

Scrit: Thanks for the good advice about shrinkage on biscuit joints. Hopefully I'll eventually speed up enough for this to become a danger! I guess that most birch timber is only suitable for making ply. I quite like its light and almost reflective appearance, but I can imagine that coping with the knots is a pain.

Engineer one and Newbie_Neil: I'm suitably embarrassed about my little stack of Festool boxes. They are lovely machines and a real source of pleasure to me. I was lucky enough to start off with a small inheritance from my Mum which I blew on these tools. I've also been lucky to start as a hobby, rather than a job, and with plenty of time to do research before buying. I had never used a palm sander before, and the Festool RS400 is practically my favourite tool. I hate all the dust in hand sanding, but Festool's vacuum system really works. Festool claim that their system blows air through the holes in the centre of the sanding pad so as to enhance the suction through the holes at the edge. When I ordered replacement abrasives from Axminster they arrived without these magic central holes, and they really didn't work as well.

Again, thanks for all the other comments and suggestions.

Brian L

 

[Newbie_Neil]

Hi Brian

Being told by Alf that my first post 'stinks' isn't a very good start! Since I've admired Alf's beautiful writing, good sense and humour for a long time, I reckon I'd better think hard about her comments...

You can't have been looking at her writing enough to know when she is extemely jealous of your skills and also that she put a "winking smiley".

It was all said in fun.

Hope this clears it up for you.

Cheers
Neil

 

[Evergreen]

Brian

Welcome to the forum. Your first "real" project is excellent. It's also good to hear that you have appreciated the best way to chop a mortise i.e. WITHOUT pre-drilling holes in the waste. I was taught to chop a mortise using only a chisel and mallet in this way. It is also the method advocated by Robert Wearing and Adam Cherubini. In fact, Robert Wearing's first commandment of mortising used to be "Thou shall not nibble the sides of thy mortise". It's easier of course if you use a traditional (or "pig sticker") mortise chisel because the thickness of the blade helps to keep the sides of the mortise true.

Regards.