Electric vehicles

[worn thumbs]

Sorry to say this Jacob but I reckon the ICE car will out live you Jacob!!

I hope Jacob has many years ahead of him.For one thing,it will take a huge amount of time to build some generating capacity to match the energy we currently get from fossil fuels.For another,who else will keep up the crusade against trinkets of dubious merit being marketed to hobbyist woodworkers?

 

[Jacob]

I hope Jacob has many years ahead of him.For one thing,it will take a huge amount of time to build some generating capacity to match the energy we currently get from fossil fuels.

Exactly. You've got it. Basically we're fooked.

For another,who else will keep up the crusade against trinkets of dubious merit being marketed to hobbyist woodworkers?

The gadgets won't be much use post-apocalypse. Time to get some basic skills in. Won't need flint knapping as there'll be loads of scrap metal about.
We are entering the scrap-iron-age

 

[Jacob]

We wish

And a happy christmas to you too!

 

[Jacob]

Sorry to say this Jacob but I reckon the ICE car will out live you Jacob!!

I should hope so. My push bike will outlive me (79 next month). In fact my tooth brush will (not many teeth). There's stuff in the freezer which will out live me!

 

[Lons]

It’s like dovetails you’ve got to keep practicing till you get it right.

Hopefully your dovetails are better than your wife training efforts.
Wives who don't fill up while out shopping soon get the message if you refuse to do it for her. My missus could also change a wheel if necessary (or use the temporary kit), and keeps the windscreen washers topped up, checks her tyre pressures etc., just need a few early ground rules.

 

[GuitardoctorW7]

Ford have a different slant Ford wants to be able to shut down your air conditioner and radio if you miss a car payment—and the car could even drive away on its own .If anybody can be bothered to follow the link,it explains that Ford have patented a technology to remotely disable some features of a car if a finance payment is missed.I suppose the reason for the patent is to licence the technology to other car companies.Good wheeze that,getting the opposition to give you money.

My colleague's Tesla refused to start one morning. Seems there was a bank cock up on the lease payments and wouldn't move until it was sorted.

 

[John Brown]

I suppose it makes sense at some level to lease cars, maybe if you have a company and can avoid some tax, but I've always bought outright. Still need to fork out money if the car won't go, or the AC stops working, though.

 

[pe2dave]

An unusual tale. Dealers don't want to sell EV's?

 

[Lons]

I have an acquaintance who owns one of the "we buy your car" type companies, I hadn't spoken to him for a couple of years but met at a mutual friend's funeral last month. As usual the conversation got around to cars and as usual he offered to buy mine which I declined but he did tell me he won't buy in any electric cars unless absolutely dirt cheap where on the other hand he can sell ICE quality models with ease.

We didn't go into further details but I know him well enough and there's no reason for him to lie so just stating facts relating to one business, others might well be different and no doubt will have to change as used ICE cars become more scarce.

 

[stuart little]

John

A lot of people keep talking about hydrogen, so why do you think it's not being pursued?

Scared someone might build a bomb! BOOM _BOOM!

 

[stuart little]

John Deere disabled tractors, stolen by Ruskies from Ukrainian farmers.

 

[worn thumbs]

A lot of people keep talking about hydrogen, so why do you think it's not being pursued?

Who says it's not being pursued? MissionH24 : l'hydrogène au Mans en 2026 I Le futur du sport automobile It is widely known that BMW are examining the possibilities and the link shows that a hydrogen powered car has lapped the circuit at Le Mans,with a view to a hydrogen class being introduced at a future race.I would expect the racing programme to progress as rapidly as funds allow and it seems to have attracted the interest of Akio Toyoda,who seems to be unconvinced that electric is the only way forward.There have been a tiny number of Toyota Miraj cars in Europe for a while now.I suspect it would be an unwise decision for any car company to pull the shutters down an any research programme that isn't purely electric.After all,it takes decades to get a power station built and the planet will need thousands more of them.

 

[Jacob]

......I suspect it would be an unwise decision for any car company to pull the shutters down an any research programme that isn't purely electric.After all,it takes decades to get a power station built and the planet will need thousands more of them.

But green hydrogen power is fundamentally electric i.e. is generated from water by sustainably generated electricity.
Just a different route to the wheels, with no problematic battery in the way.

 

[worn thumbs]

That may appear to be so.There is just the fairly large problem of storing and transporting the hydrogen,not to mention the energy density.In addition to the explosion potential and the embrittlement that were mentioned earlier,there is the challenge of successfully preventing the smallest of all molecules from escaping the storage vessels and piping.I rather fancy the alternative of leaving out the middle men and just fitting a mast and sails to much lighter vehicles.It will work well on breezy days and there is no need for the power stations or grid capacity.Much less likely to spontaneously combust too!

 

[Sean33]

I have an acquaintance who owns one of the "we buy your car" type companies, I hadn't spoken to him for a couple of years but met at a mutual friend's funeral last month. As usual the conversation got around to cars and as usual he offered to buy mine which I declined but he did tell me he won't buy in any electric cars unless absolutely dirt cheap where on the other hand he can sell ICE quality models with ease.

We didn't go into further details but I know him well enough and there's no reason for him to lie so just stating facts relating to one business, others might well be different and no doubt will have to change as used ICE cars become more scarce.

A good friend of mine has an interest in a car business and he has similar thoughts, here is what he said to me
With new electric cars being offered at 0% APR and big dealer contribs ( Polestar £7k) plus extras free/heavy discount, like service plans.

And second hand Elec car prices in free fall … I asked Andy if worth me looking at.

He said stay well away.
If you hv to , only go for a PCP so you can hand back.

Horror stories of dealers loosing £10k+ per car.
Industry is increasingly worried about battery life = scrap.

Co ‘s can’t get trained EV engineers = long waits for repairs/servicing.

EVs have to be kept further apart, due to fire risk = less cars worked on, for given space = hit to margins… or will need to charge more to work on EVs.

Insurance premiums higher and infrastructure is a long way behind.

This all bodes well for China. Cheap EVs. It’s like a new TV, don’t repair, Throw away in ten years time.

 

[John Brown]

I thought it was established that the increased fire risk was actually a decreased fire risk?

 

[richarddownunder]

Well, maybe it's all different here in the colonies.

We own a 2016 leaf. It's been great for 80% of what we do, which is around town, commute to work (useless on a trip of course). It has been 100% reliable, no servicing to speak of, and costs about NZ$5/100 km to run, which I think, in technical terms, is 'stuff all'. So far it hasn't spontaneously combusted (although I'm not keen on charging it at night). Battery is about 75% but that doesn't really have any impact on around-town driving. We are in the fortunate position of having a garage to charge it and a 3.5litre V6 for long trips (which costs ~$30/100km for comparison).

The large company I work for has gone electric and, on long trips, sure, you have to factor the charge time in (stop for a coffee, plug it in, and it is ready for another 400 km when you have got to the bottom of the cup). We are also in the fortunate position, as a country, of having copious hydro and wind power which accounts for something like 80% of our electricity. So, here, EVs seem to make perfect sense. I'll be getting another longer-range EV one day but with the lithium/iron/phosphate battery which is less likely to undergo a runaway reaction in a prang - so I understand.

My 2cents.
Cheers
Richard

 

[pe2dave]

A guy delivering electric cars... some rather sad tales.

 

[Ollie78]

Who says it's not being pursued? MissionH24 : l'hydrogène au Mans en 2026 I Le futur du sport automobile It is widely known that BMW are examining the possibilities and the link shows that a hydrogen powered car has lapped the circuit at Le Mans,with a view to a hydrogen class being introduced at a future race.I would expect the racing programme to progress as rapidly as funds allow and it seems to have attracted the interest of Akio Toyoda,who seems to be unconvinced that electric is the only way forward.There have been a tiny number of Toyota Miraj cars in Europe for a while now.I suspect it would be an unwise decision for any car company to pull the shutters down an any research programme that isn't purely electric.After all,it takes decades to get a power station built and the planet will need thousands more of them.

Also JCB and Caterpillar both have hydrogen engines, because 4 tons of batteries that work for 2 hours and need charging for 10 is rubbish on a 360 excavator in a remote area.

 

[Cobbs]

Strikes me that a lot of people spend a lot of time looking for reasons not to get an EV, when what they really mean is they don't like change and want to stick with ICE. It's been shown very conclusively that the fire risk of an EV is lower than that of an ICE. It's also been shown (and here I'm talking from personal experience as well as received wisdom) that EV's are cheaper to run, have lower servicing costs, are more reliable and easier to drive and despite their initial cost being higher than an ICE, they repay that pretty rapidly in reduced fuel costs at average milage. The batteries are 95% recyclable using current methods, so that needn't be a worry.
With modern chargers and constantly improving batteries, they will continue to get even better and I for one need to get some blood back in my legs and have a pee after sitting in a car for more than a couple of hundred miles on a long trip, so a coffee and a stroll while the battery gets topped up is no hardship.
I accept that they (at the moment) are not suitable for every application (diggers in remote areas and so on) but for virtually all the rest of us, who just need a car to get from A to B, they are an improvement on ICE. Also of course, if things pan out as they should, they should one day be the only option, so better get used to the idea.