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Terry - Somerset

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There are ~8.5k fuel stations in the UK serving ~33m cars - ~1 fuel station for every 4k cars.

A typical medium/large town (like the one in which I live) has a population of ~80k. Between them there are ~40k cars. In the town there are ~8 fuel stations, of which 4 are supermarket based.

Looking at the transition to EV - by 2030 there may only be two or three that will be economically viable. The 2 nearest larger cities are 35 and 50 miles away. Intermediate small towns and villages are likely to have no fuel stations.

So if you live in a rural area you may have to plan to travel 15-30 miles simply to refuel an ICE. But your small town or village already has electricity running to every home, shop, etc. What will your next vehicle purchase be??
 

Spectric

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just seen an ad on TV for the new Mustang EV......looks just like the other Jelly mould car styles....
Yes it is sad how the OEMs are willing to throw classic car badges onto something that is so obviously not a mustang, more of a mule. I cannot see an EV having the same following as thousand horsepower Skyliners and American classics with huge V8's but then I suppose the new generation sitting in their EV could play a loud recording of there favourite car and pretend, plus that will be safer for pedestrians.
 

Spectric

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So if you live in a rural area you may have to plan to travel 15-30 miles simply to refuel an ICE. But your small town or village already has electricity running to every home, shop, etc. What will your next vehicle purchase be??
But when everyone in that village plugs their car in for an overnight charge what happens next, them old overhead supply cables will start adding to global warming.
 

JobandKnock

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So if you live in a rural area you may have to plan to travel 15-30 miles simply to refuel an ICE. But your small town or village already has electricity running to every home, shop, etc. What will your next vehicle purchase be??
I live in a semi rural area and we have few filling stations within 10 miles, but like the vast majority of people of working age in this area I travel into larger conurbations (where there are filling stations) to work and sometimes to shop (although not often).I also have a full gallon can in the back for emergencies- mine or other people's. That's how it works in the country
 

hairy

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Smart meters ars supposed to allow the grid to buffer excess production from renewables into domestic EVs in the future. But also to take it back when needed. How good will that be to discover your supplier took your drive to work fuel?
 

D_W

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Smart meters ars supposed to allow the grid to buffer excess production from renewables into domestic EVs in the future. But also to take it back when needed. How good will that be to discover your supplier took your drive to work fuel?
If you opt out, they won't do it. I'm sure you could choose a level cutoff, too.
 

D_W

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Years ago, when they began importing the Citroen 2CV into the UK, my wife bought one. I ran a Land Rover but became fascinated by the "tin snail".
We still get snow in Scotland, and the 2CV seemed to tackle the winters almost as well as the 4x4 (most drivers seem unable to cope with the smallest snowfall nowadays). The 2CV also seemed to hardly ever need to visit the petrol station!
As for EV's, keep hearing about problems re battery metals and future electricity supply?
If there's a shortage of one chemistry, batteries will just be another. Fair chance there will be a sodium ion battery before lithium or cobalt are short. There's enormous incentive now to create a cheaper battery.
 

John Brown

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Smart meters ars supposed to allow the grid to buffer excess production from renewables into domestic EVs in the future. But also to take it back when needed. How good will that be to discover your supplier took your drive to work fuel?
Or to get paid for charging your EV.
Not a frequent occurrence, I'll grant you, but if you sign up for the strangely named "Agile octopus" tariff, it's a real possibility.
I have considered it, since we currently use Octopus for gas and electricity, but I don't believe it would be a good fit, especially as we have some solar.
However, I think the idea of being able to use EVs as storage is cool. If it were a case of, "oh carp, I now don't have enough capacity to get to work", the idea would be stillborn.
 

MikeJhn

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I wonder how the richest people in the world (Oil) are going to take being side lined by EV vehicles, are all power stations in the future going to Oil fired and keep the $ rate high or will we embrace the Nuclear stations and stop the public debate of should we build them? Or is it just a case of not in my back yard?
 

Sachakins

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Top 10 EV by manufacturers range available in UK now.
See the common theme, to overcome range anxiety it will cost you a lot of money.



Tesla Model S Long Range 379-mile range (WLTP) £77,9800

Tesla Model 3 Long Range 348-mile range (WLTP) £46,990

Tesla Model X Long Range 314-mile range (WLTP) £82,980

Jaguar i-Pace 292-mile range (WLTP) £64,495

Kia e-Niro 282-mile range (WLTP) £36,495

Hyundai Kona Electric 278-mile range (WLTP) £38,900

Mercedes-Benz EQC 259-mile range (WLTP) £65,720

Audi e-tron 239-mile range (WLTP) £59,900

Nissan Leaf e+ 239-mile range (WLTP) £35,895

BMW i3 193-mile range (WLTP) £37,480
 

MikeJhn

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Claimed, it was a Kia that we carried out the experiment on:

Went out the other day in my pal's supposed 280mile range EV, as an experiment we turned everything on and watched the range indicator fall dramatically, did not complete the experiment as it was getting close to not being able to complete our journey and get back, it got close to 100miles.
 

Blackswanwood

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I wonder how the richest people in the world (Oil) are going to take being side lined by EV vehicles, are all power stations in the future going to Oil fired and keep the $ rate high or will we embrace the Nuclear stations and stop the public debate of should we build them? Or is it just a case of not in my back yard?
The Gulf States have been getting ready for this through their Wealth Funds for many years. They have no choice - embrace the change or be left behind.
 

Ozi

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If there's a shortage of one chemistry, batteries will just be another. Fair chance there will be a sodium ion battery before lithium or cobalt are short. There's enormous incentive now to create a cheaper battery.
Lithium is used because of the charge density that it can support, if you want to think of it simply lithium atoms are much smaller than sodium so you get more in a box, fortunately lithium is one of the most abundant elements on the plannet
The Gulf States have been getting ready for this through their Wealth Funds for many years. They have no choice - embrace the change or be left behind.
They have a lot of sunshine out there, also a lot of unused land with access to a lot of salt water. Solar desalination to grow food in hydroponic farms and electricity / hydrogen to fuel it all. An awful lot of money to be made making the desert bloom. Given the heat out there living in the shade under your highly profitable solar farm doesn't sound like a terrible life style. Water supply is already at crisis point for many people on this planet but closed loop hydroponic systems can be very frugal and also work in sink with sewerage systems as is done on a very small scale in this country growing reeds.
 

Jacob

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Big emphasis on EV in lots of the forums I look at.
I can't help thinking it's not that important really - it's just about losing our extravagant toys. They've only been with us on a massive scale since mid 1900s - two generations.
There were no cars on our street when I was little, unless a doctor or a taxi. In fact there was no tarmac at first (1947) it came later, along with concrete paving slab pavements. A marvellous playground - you could play hopscotch or marbles in the middle of the smooth road and thats where I learned to ride a bike - the cars came later and spoiled it all!
The alternative to cars could be the 20 minute neighbourhood, which is less of a radical innovation than a step back to earlier times. The 20-minute neighbourhood
The key word missing from climate change strategy chats is "regression". Innovative solutions are one thing but more to the point are the things we are going to have to give up
 
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CornishWoodworker

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An EV range should be given as a Max and Min and Average
Everything that can sap power ON or working near capacity
Nothing on and driving sedately at normal speeds.
Normal Driving with use of some electrical sapping devices and functions
 

Ozi

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Sorry not trying to reply to this post but any post I try to reply to takes me here, hopping this will get rid of it
 

Ozi

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Big emphasis on EV in lots of the forums I look at.
I can't help thinking it's not that important really - it's just about losing our extravagant toys. They've only been with us on a massive scale since mid 1900s - two generations.
There were no cars on our street when I was little, unless a doctor or a taxi. In fact there was no tarmac at first (1947) it came later, along with concrete paving slab pavements. A marvellous playground - you could play hopscotch or marbles in the middle of the smooth road and thats where I learned to ride a bike - the cars came later and spoiled it all!
The alternative to cars could be the 20 minute neighbourhood, which is less of a radical innovation than a step back to earlier times. The 20-minute neighbourhood
The key word missing from climate change strategy chats is "regression". Innovative solutions are one thing but more to the point are the things we are going to have to give up
Very true. Also how much of the giving up will be a loss. Perhaps the next generation are already heading that way. I was desperate to learn to drive, both my sons in their early twenty's view having to drive as at best an inconvenience, my friends daughters have never learned. Much of their social life is on line, things get delivered, one works from home and for now dads the taxi. It took some getting used to walking past any of their rooms and hearing multiple voices in many different accents and occasionally different languages knowing there is no one else there, but increasingly I think it's a good thing. They have friend alround the world and a much more international attitude than I ever had.
 

Jacob

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Very true. Also how much of the giving up will be a loss. Perhaps the next generation are already heading that way. I was desperate to learn to drive, both my sons in their early twenty's view having to drive as at best an inconvenience, my friends daughters have never learned. Much of their social life is on line, things get delivered, one works from home and for now dads the taxi. It took some getting used to walking past any of their rooms and hearing multiple voices in many different accents and occasionally different languages knowing there is no one else there, but increasingly I think it's a good thing. They have friend alround the world and a much more international attitude than I ever had.
My son has given up too. His last one was a Mercedes estate of which I was very envious! He says he's better off without, in spite of high cost of trains, which he uses a lot.
 

NikNak

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There are ~8.5k fuel stations in the UK serving ~33m cars - ~1 fuel station for every 4k cars.

A typical medium/large town (like the one in which I live) has a population of ~80k. Between them there are ~40k cars. In the town there are ~8 fuel stations, of which 4 are supermarket based.

Looking at the transition to EV - by 2030 there may only be two or three that will be economically viable. The 2 nearest larger cities are 35 and 50 miles away. Intermediate small towns and villages are likely to have no fuel stations.

So if you live in a rural area you may have to plan to travel 15-30 miles simply to refuel an ICE. But your small town or village already has electricity running to every home, shop, etc. What will your next vehicle purchase be??


I'm in no way doubting any of the figures above.... however something did whizz through my head....

Currently when you need to refuel you HAVE to go to a petrol station/supermarket. But... given than x% of homes have off street parking and will be able/want(?) to charge at home, how will this affect the amount/number of future charging/refueling stations.? Will there be a need for 8.5K 'fueling' stations if x% of charging is now done at home. And will the x% that DONT have off street parking/charging facility then have to travel further just to get charged up, making the 20 minute neighbourhood more of a reality..... :unsure:
 
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