Ear Defenders

[Racers]

Hi, Chaps

Which ones do you use?

I was using mine last week and after a short while the hurt my ears and them hot and sweaty.

Are the 3M Peltor Optime ones any good.

Pete

 

[DIY Stew]

I wear hearing aids in both ears, my hearing is completley shot, so dont be tempted to not wear your ear defenders because they make your ears sweat, my ears sweat because of my hearing aids. My advice would be to try as many different types of ear defenders until you find some that are suitable for you. Now I dont need ear defenders I just take my hearing aids out!!!

Stew

 

[Spindle]

Hi

Peltor Optime IIIs are what I use - very comfortable and efficient. Ears do get a bit sweaty though.

Regards Mick

 

[Racers]

Hi, Mick

Thanks, they do look good and not to expensive from Amazon.


Pete

 

[Mark A]

I use some I got from Santa Pod about 8 years ago. They're uncomfortable if I wear them too long but they work ok

 

[alan2001]

Are the 3M Peltor Optime ones any good.

i have to wear the clip-on version of those on my hard hat at work offshore, sometimes for hours. they are excellent.

at home i make do with a pair of B&Q "deluxe" ones. they're alright actually but i would go for the Peltors if i was you.

 

[Stoday]

I'm with DIY stew, I leave my hearing aids out when I'm in my workshop.

It seems you either end up deaf or with one fewer fingers... :lol:

 

[Eric The Viking]

I got these Axminster ones last time. They are very good - comfortable, even with glasses and headband magnifier on, and good, fully-documented attenuation. They also pack up small (my other 'official' cheapo set doesn't).

I also occasionally use these:

with the cable removed (it unplugs from the cans). They're a bit expensive for throwing around the workshop, but they do work well.

Don't take risks - permanent hearing damage is done far more quickly than people imagine. For really aggressive noise, such as hours of routing or planing or hammer-action tools, wear good soft earplugs (from a chemist) under the defenders. Impulse and loud higher-frequency sound (stuff hitting other stuff, including planer knives, hammer drills and firearms, drum kits and electro-pop) causes hearing damage fastest.

E.

 

[Eric The Viking]

I got these Axminster ones last time. They are very good - comfortable, even with glasses and headband magnifier on, and good, fully-documented attenuation. They also pack up small (my other 'official' cheapo set doesn't).

I also occasionally use these:

with the cable removed (it unplugs from the cans). They're a bit expensive for throwing around the workshop, but they do work well.

Don't take risks - permanent hearing damage is done far more quickly than people imagine. This is scary:

Roughly explained, the graph indicates that the "carpenter's" hearing is already one sixteenth as sensitive (at 6kHz) as it should be, and the 55-year-old craftsman is profoundly deaf! That frequency, 6kHz, is important for consonants in speech - the 25-year old would already be in trouble with speech in noisy surroundings unless he (she) could lip-read...

For really aggressive noise, such as hours of routing or planing or hammer-action tools, wear good soft earplugs (from a chemist) under the defenders. Impulse and loud higher-frequency sound (stuff hitting other stuff, including planer knives, hammer drills and firearms, drum kits and electro-pop) causes hearing damage fastest. Also don't under estimate the damage of heavy hammering - it's not just hitting your thumb!

E.
. . . . . .
Long PS: I forgot to say:

For those who don't know, the decibel scale ("dB") is a logarithmic measure of relative 'bigness' (it's used for a range of things other than sound). To a layman, the 'logarithmic' bit means it goes up as the square of the change (very, very approximately).

• "dBA" uses a specific loudness reference to give an absolute measurement of sound power.
• "dB" is relative (it has no "A"). It means how much bigger or smaller a difference is.

This is poorly understood, even by manufacturers, who often produce misleading/incorrect data sheets, etc.

Some reference points:

• a 3dB change is a halving or doubling of sound power
• 125 dBA is considered to be the threshold of pain, but it's a bit arbitrary.
• Sound louder than 135 dBA causes instant damage. How badly depends on how long you're exposed to it in one go, and overall (all exposures added up).
• With the possible exception of lightning, there aren't any impulse sounds in the natural world with a large high-frequency content - these are almost entirely man-made. The ear protects itself well against large, low-frequency noises, but is vulnerable to high-frequency ones.
• There is no really safe level of ambient noise. Tests on sub-Saharan tribespeople (where it's really quiet) show that hearing doesn't deteriorate much naturally over a lifetime. Almost all 'old-age' hearing loss is actually environmental damage or disease.
• A 1970s study on Soviet workers at a drop-forge showed that high-level impulse noise causes permanent damage very quickly indeed.
• Digitally recorded music tracks played on personal stereos (with 'earbuds') can be as damaging as power tools. Listening to music under ear defenders in a noisy environment is a really bad idea, for any number of reasons, not least hearing damage.

http://www.cdc.gov/niosh/topics/noise/ is a really good reference site, but, as an indication of how poorly the subject is communicated, in the first PDF I opened from there, every reference to decibels used the terminology incorrectly -- the author clearly didn't understand what he was writing about! There are better bits though, and it's worth looking through. This is especially useful:

You can blow big holes in the above (technically, it's like comparing the national debt to the size of Wales), but it's a useful rule-of-thumb guide. Note the hammer drill especially.

E.

 

[Racers]

Hi, Eric

And don't forget that a motorbike with a race pipe and a loud helmet (ARAI RX7 etc) will cause hearing damage, so pop those ear plugs in before a ride. Its what I do.

Pete

 

[Eric The Viking]

Hi, Eric

And don't forget that a motorbike with a race pipe and a loud helmet (ARAI RX7 etc) will cause hearing damage, so pop those ear plugs in before a ride. Its what I do.

Pete

Too right. Me too.

But I have a boom-box fixed onto the luggage carrier of my CG125, to play Guzzi sounds when I'm riding. There are exceptions to everything.

 

[Racers]

Hi, Eric

I would play 180 deg Jota sounds :lol:


Pete

 

[alan2001]

And don't forget that a motorbike with a race pipe and a loud helmet (ARAI RX7 etc) will cause hearing damage, so pop those ear plugs in before a ride. Its what I do.

Amen to that!!! But not only if you have a loud bike - the constant wind noise in your helmet over a certain speed will also damage your hearing permanently. I literally don't understand bikers who don't think they need earplugs. :evil:

I would also agree with the above suggestions to double up with ear plugs and the ear defenders for the really loud stuff. I have an earplug dispenser on the wall of the garage full of Moldex 'Spark Plugs', which are excellent for biking or hammer drilling (or both at the same time if you're into extreme sports.)

I can feel myself getting deafer in my old age so I'm quite disciplined about this now. We had the gardeners in a while back, 3 young guys, who were all using unbelievably loud petrol lawnmowers and hedge trimmers etc. without any ear or eye protection. So I stopped the job, gave them a lecture, and handed out some spare safety glasses & earplugs. They must have thought I was a right boring old prick.

But they wore them the next time, and told me they always do now. Maybe, maybe not, but at least someone's eventually told them about it.

 

[Eric The Viking]

Hi, Eric

I would play 180 deg Jota sounds :lol:
Pete

OK, I can appreciate the environ-mental health value of that.

I once had some Jota bars (on a GT250A) - not quite the same :-(

 

[Eric The Viking]

I stopped the job, gave them a lecture, and handed out some spare safety glasses & earplugs. They must have thought I was a right boring old prick.

But they wore them the next time, and told me they always do now. Maybe, maybe not, but at least someone's eventually told them about it.

We took smallest daughter's friend on holiday with us a couple of weeks ago. To my horror she didn't participate in the usual long-journey banter+games, but put the earbuds in straight away. We've got a people carrier, which is pretty cavernous, but the 'spill' was so loud (from the back seat!) you couldn't hear the radio well in the front.

It's probably too late, but I gently explained when her mum picked her up. She's a sweet girl, and a great companion for daughter (fogey's holiday really, so littlest needed distraction!), and I'd hate her to have permanent damage, but she must have been well on the way if she's been doing that on the bus, etc.

I fear a deaf generation of youngsters: happily all mine are aware of the dangers and even tell their friends, sometimes!

E.

 

[will_s87]

Are the ear buds just bad full stop?
Or does it compound the problem when they are used in conjunction with defenders in a noisy environment? I enjoy putting music on under my muffs and doing the tedious finishing work... I'm a bit concerned now.

I just took an online hearing test ... I don't have hearing loss, yet. !

Oats

 

[Eric The Viking]

Are the ear buds just bad full stop?
Or does it compound the problem when they are used in conjunction with defenders in a noisy environment? I enjoy putting music on under my muffs and doing the tedious finishing work... I'm a bit concerned now.

I just took an online hearing test ... I don't have hearing loss, yet. !

Oats

I'm not an expert, just a former BBC audio engineer. We used to have regular hearing tests. I wouldn't trust anything on-line in this context. Audiometric kit has to be carefully calibrated.

Regarding earbuds, it's complicated. There are a number of factors that make them very risky:

• They're very close to the diaphragm. Small changes in distance (simply making them more comfortable) will make big changes in power received at the eardrum (and the spectral spread of same). They're also very diifficult to measure meaningfully (manufacturers' specs), because the way they're used affects their danger dramatically.
• Our perception of loudness partly depends on the amount of distortion of the sound. "Cleaner" sounds can be tolerated at higher levels, although the brain thinks they're not as loud as distorted ones. This is a huge issue with digital recording, as sound is now 'cleaner' than off tape or off disk (or off AM radio) and the tendency is to listen at too-loud levels.
• People try to adjust volume so the sound is acceptably above the background noise. Your defenders attenuate, but a lot of noise still gets through, and you're subconsciously setting the volume to account for that. Overall, the power level is probably close to that of the machinery without defenders, but it probably doesn't feel like it.

I'd try a quite different tack: get some "closed" headphones that will work well with your music source. Put some good quality soft foam earplugs in underneath the headphones. Your ears will get used to the greater attenuation (quieter background sounds), and the music will sound better although the eardrum is getting it at much lower volume (your ears adjust).

I'm not an expert, but, per previous posts, even the 'experts' often aren't.

E.

PS: It works. I do it on long-haul flights to good effect (to get to sleep!), and IMHO it's far safer than 'noise cancelling' systems, where you're trusting your hearing to some designed-down-to-a-price technology.

 

[will_s87]

Thanks Eric, a very informative post. I will try what you say with the ear muffs and plugs.

What are you views on the ear defenders with built in radio, I was on site yesterday when my buddy came out grinning because he was listening to radio 4 whilst grinding haha.

oats.

 

[mbartlett99]

We wear Peltor Optime 3 all day in the engine room and yes you're going to get sweaty but from my research I think these have the highest attenuation on the market right now.

Users with old ear muffs should be aware that although you can't tell the foam degrades over time and becomes less effective. One major drawback that we have always been told regarding ear plugs is simply fit - not everyones ear are the same size and performance varies drammatically.

 

[Eric The Viking]

What are you views on the ear defenders with built in radio,

Theoretically, they are a bad idea, as you might set the radio too loud and the radio then causes damage that the ear defenders would otherwise prevent.

BUT (and this gets a bit technical), because almost all analogue radio is heavily compressed these days, you aren't likely to casually set the volume at dangerous levels, as the compression makes the material sound louder, and also has the effect of reducing the peaks. The dangerous thing would be to listen to digitally recorded stuff in those circumstances (iPod output, etc.).

Practically? I wouldn't do it without soft earplugs underneath.

There is also a different but IMHO more important practical safety issue: you can't hear sounds in the environment at the same time. For example in any sort of emergency, you're effectively making yourself deaf. This isn't the same as just protecting your ears from loud environmental sounds. You won't easily hear shouts, alarms, engines, bleepers, sirens, and so on. It's a biggie.

For that reason I think they the HSE should ban them from sites (bluntly, I'm amazed this hasn't happened already), and they should be used with caution everywhere else. Site accidents often happen because of communication breakdown, and these things make that more likely.

Well, you did ask! ;-)

E.