Drawers and draws.

[Paul Chapman]

I agree with you, Pete. My son is dyslexic and has had a terrible time with spelling (although the content of his writing is excellent). But he's worked hard at it and has found various dodges to improve and get the spelling correct. But you're right, it's a hell people face every day and those without the problem just don't understand how difficult it is.

Cheers :wink:

Paul

 

[wizer]

it's reading for me. I have to read things over and over to get it right. The words literally dance around, the paragraph can be different each time I read it. It yet another of those conditions that medical science know very little about. Like Paul's son, I've found some work around and techniques over the years to speed things up. I still fear books, which I guess is another reason I've learned more through forums than books.

 

[Smudger]

Hi, Wizer

'tiz with me, I just can't remember the sequence the letters go in or work out how thing should be spelt. I get things so wrong the spell checker can't correct it, google is good at spell checking but usually I give up and use simpler words. I use the thesarus to find out if I have used the right meaning of word.

Its a hell I face every day, so when some one harps on about spelling and how stupid people are thet don't get it right it rubs me up the wrong way.


Pete

Pete - anyone with any experience can spot the difference between a dyslexic, a poor typist and someone who can't be bothered.
A friend of mine at school was seriously dyslexic - you could only understand his writing if you 'read' it in his voice. But, with the support of his partner he has now written three very well received books, and various articles. It isn't about the content, as Paul says, just about the transmission.

 

[Racers]

Hi, Wizer

I am not to bad with, reading some words I haven't got a clue how to pronounce them, I do get some dancing of the words but not much.


Pete

 

[Smudger]

Described to me by one person as 'watching ants crawl on the page'. Have you tried Irlen lenses?

 

[wizer]

Smudger that's interesting, when I was at school, one of the techniques I used for reading was to read in the voice of my teachers. It was the only way I could get through the page. It was like I was listening to them rather then reading. It doesn't work much now, I can't even remember their names

 

[Smudger]

I do that a lot, especially when reading novels. Do you prefer to learn by listening, rather than reading (auditory learning style)?
I think this is quite common. I heard the other day (on QI) that 'silent reading' is relatively recent. Perhaps what we are doing is simply recreating that 'sound' in our heads.

 

[sometimewoodworker]

Hi, Wizer

'tiz with me, I just can't remember the sequence the letters go in or work out how thing should be spelt. I get things so wrong the spell checker can't correct it, google is good at spell checking but usually I give up and use simpler words. I use the thesarus to find out if I have used the right meaning of word.

Its a hell I face every day, so when some one harps on about spelling and how stupid people are thet don't get it right it rubs me up the wrong way.
Pete

I think that all the criticism is directed at those who are too lazy to bother to learn to spell correctly and the teachers who accept bad spelling from the overwhelming majority who can learn. It is almost never intended to include dyslexics. So I feel that those withe the condition need to realise that and not get upset at criticism not intended for them.

If you can't then we may get to the situation that exists in the US where any thing that may possibly offend someone is banned. We all need to be offended and rubbed up the wrong way from time to time

FWIW I too am partially dyslexic

 

[Paul Chapman]

I think that all the criticism is directed at those who are too lazy to bother to learn to spell correctly and the teachers who accept bad spelling from the overwhelming majority who can learn. It is almost never intended to include dyslexics.

Well, maybe they should make that clear and then people would not get upset.

Cheers :wink:

Paul

 

[Smudger]

I do love the idea that teachers accept bad spelling...

 

[Streepips]

As I said: There will always be those that feel attacked and attack back when another`s opinion differs from their own.
I acknowledge the perceived slight but assure you that if I had meant to include word blindness in my scope I would have said so, and I did not.
As far as dyslexia and dyslexics , I worked with two joiners/shopfitters that were dyslexic and wrote their time sheets, checked their wage packets for them, taxed their vans, transcribed work drawings and schedules of work for them. They were not ill educated but the system of education did not cater well for them. I was asked to help and I was glad I was able to.
If I attacked anyone, it is those that are illiterate through choice, who see no value in language, who reduce life to lesser dimensions through ignorance.
If that is pomposity I am guilty, but then so is anyone who aspires to glean the most from life and its language.

 

[frugal]

I do love the idea that teachers accept bad spelling...

My mother had a stand up row with my English teacher when he told her that spelling and grammar were not part of the English curriculum.

 

[Smudger]

Spelling and grammar aren't the same thing, but I had even to assess SPUG (Spelling, PUnctuation and Grammar) in history. Certainly all government guidelines say that spelling should be corrected (within reason) and that it can be taught (I did it for years) and in the National Guidelines for Gifted and Talented Children it is a key indicator. I know that because I co-wrote the guidelines.
That teacher needed correcting.

 

[Smudger]

If I attacked anyone, it is those that are illiterate through choice, who see no value in language, who reduce life to lesser dimensions through ignorance.
.

You ought to have a look at Basil Bernstein's ideas about restricted and elaborated code. (It's in Wikipedia).
In his early days Bernstein claimed that there were two codes. One, the restricted, tended to be used by people with lower levels of vocabulary and grammatical skills, and therefore restricted the concepts which could be transmitted or understood. Elaborated code allowed for unrestricted verbalisation, and as Lev Vygotsky claimed, there can be no conceptualisation without verbalisation (in other words if you can't put it into words you can't really understand it.)
Bernstein went back on that in his later years, to an extent, but I still think it is valid.

 

[Chris Knight]

Dick that is an interesting reference, I found this one very informative http://www.doceo.co.uk/background/language_codes.htm

The notion of a "shared and taken-for-granted knowledge in the group of speakers" speaks to me and is reflected in for example the meta language of idioms. Thus "Too many cooks.." could be an observation on a complex screw-up that the observers will all recognise. Just three words need to do the work of many.

You find the same in other languages and as an aside, I think the understanding of a society is aided immensely when you speak their language and are comfortable with such "restricted code" (or is that a bit chicken and egg?)

 

[Smudger]

I'm not sure. I was taught (degree in history of English language, 1969) that using language likely to exclude outsiders is a use of a professional register, and is very common, a good example being doctors, who use a specialised form of language that shows their inclusion in the group and excludes others. That isn't quite the same as elaborated code, which is a wider vocabulary and more complex grammatical forms. Like the difference between français familier and français soutenu, the difference between 'J'une bagnole neuve' and 'J'ai une voiture nouvelle'. Most French people would say the first, but write the second...
Think, "I gotta new motor" and "I have bought a new car".

The theory was that the restricted code restricted both expression and conceptualisation, so kids in school needed to be exposed to and if necessary taught elaborated code so that they could access higher levels of learning.

 

[Chris Knight]

I'm happy to take your word on Bernstein's stuff - it's the first time I have heard of him.

I do share the notion that knowledge of an "elaborated code" is required to access higher levels of learning/understanding. I think maths is the prime example of a language where the appropriate symbolism enables totally different levels of meaning and ideas to be expressed, let alone the efficiency of common operations (long division in Roman numerals??).

 

[Smudger]

But also the language - the special use of 'product', 'sum', 'similar' - all of these make access to mathematical concepts much easier, but an uninitiated person would find them baffling.

 

[DaveL]

I get things so wrong the spell checker can't correct it, google is good at spell checking but usually I give up and use simpler words. I use the thesarus to find out if I have used the right meaning of word.

I am with Pete on this, while I have never been diagnosed as dyslexic I often don't use the words I want to as I cannot spell them or find them by looking up simpler ones, I read slowly and write even slower.

I taught HNC micro electronics for many years and was more at home with assembly language than English. I used to introduce myself by writing my name on the board and then saying that anything else I wrote on the board, if it looked spelt wrong probably was. I am not proud of my poor English but it is a constant struggle to use the written form, I prefer the spoken word and diagrams every time.

 

[Triggaaar]

As a noob here I come in search of knowledge. So this is what 'General Woodworking' is about.

or is that a bit chicken and egg?

We all know it's the egg, right?