Do the purveyors of handtools actually use the handtools?

[Dovetaildave]

Hi Y'all,

Here I am buying handtools for the schools New D&T department.
I have found that nearly all of the copingsaws here are broken, most are actually missing their pins, ive never come across it before, those that have them are in a bad way.
looking through the invoices and figuring out who we have accounts with, i came across this http://www.axminster.co.uk/axminster-coping-saw-325001
Surprised me, that's for sure......Have I been doing it wrong all these years

Now it's been one of those days where you find oneself questioning everything, maybe being a little pessimistic after having spent a few hours trading emails with a moderator from an examinations board who speaks in tongues, and wont answer any short question in less than 200 words, naively I hoped for a simple yes or no. :x

So........Apologies if this has come up before but........
Now I'm looking at buying mortice gauges, quality ones with a brass thumbscrew for pin adjustment £35 ish
Question: should the plastic or brass disc/button locking bolt compress onto the brass lower pin strip, or should it go to the wood side?
I know which side I've been doing it one all these years, according to whether its a slider or thumbscrew types, and in one instance, (comparing myself, that is to the average photo on the web) surprisingly I do seem to be doing it wrong all these years. :shock: , saying that there seem to be others who have their chosen way too.

Anyone have a preference and why?
Apologies for over using the emoticons

Maybe I should have just gone to bed very early and put today behind me and not written this.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

It locks down on the brass strip to stop it moving during use (afaik), though there should be a loose disc under the screw which actually bears down on it, not the the end of the screw.

 

[AndyT]

Re the coping saw - I do agree that it would be better if all the pictures were correct, but I expect that in reality there's a professional photographer who takes thousands of pictures in the minimum time then goes somewhere else the next day to photograph kitchen gadgets, pipe fittings or whatever - they can't be informed experts on everything they deal with.

Possibly different in a smaller business - it will be interesting to read Matthew's thoughts on this.

 

[ED65]

On the marking gauges, obviously it seems to make the most sense to have the screw (or captive plate that the screw acts upon) contact brass to lessen wear over time but not every manufacturer thought it was so obvious apparently. Depending on the maker and vintage of the gauge the screw can lock down on to brass or to wood, it's not even consistent through the years with one company's products.

 

[worn thumbs]

With my cynical hat on I will have to ask how you can be unaware that all "tools" have switches these days?Anything else is neanderthal stuff.

 

[custard]

The best marking gauges would have a screw that pushes the shaft into a corner of the mortice, or the shaft would have a curved underside and the mortice would have a corresponding curve. This means that once fastened down the shaft can't rock or twist. It's inevitable that the mortice will be fractionally larger than the shaft, so a square shaft in a square mortice, trapped only on a flat side, will always be liable to rock or twist.

Likewise a quality gauge would always have a pad between the screw and the shaft. If it didn't the action of the screw turning would have a tendency to move the shaft in or out, maybe only minutely but with a marking gauge "minutely" matters! And if the screw had a domed end then it would be an awful tool if it didn't have a pad, the screw would leave a depression in the shaft, if the next time you used the gauge you wanted a setting that was slightly different from the previous setting then you'd be scuppered. The domed end of the screw would seek out the previous depression and wouldn't allow you to vary a whisker away from that.

No wonder so many craftsmen clung to (and still favour) wedged marking gauges!

 

[Dovetaildave]

It locks down on the brass strip to stop it moving during use (afaik),

I think that the more expensive one doesnt move anyway as its threaded, the cheaper sliders move.

 

[Dovetaildave]

The best marking gauges would have a screw that pushes the shaft into a corner of the mortice

That's very interesting, I've seen that with the ovular marking and cutting gauges (Stanley ?), but don't think I've seen it with mortice types.

You made a lot of very good points there, about the depression problem, my first marking gauge from brick lane in the mid 80's suffered from that, wooden thumbscrew.

Wedged marking gauges.....aaaah , they make sense now, must be similar to the plough woodies as well, never own one of those either (wink wink ).

Do you think the screw has to make contact with the brass pin strip if its one of the more pricer versions with the-end-of-stem adjuster?

 

[Dovetaildave]

Good point, I'd never had thought of that. I assumed Axi would be big enough to have someone who's handy with a camera and can turn their hand to another task when not required to be snapping away.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

The best marking gauges would have a screw that pushes the shaft into a corner of the mortice

That's very interesting, I've seen that with the ovular marking and cutting gauges (Stanley ?), but don't think I've seen it with mortice types.

You made a lot of very good points there, about the depression problem, my first marking gauge from brick lane in the mid 80's suffered from that, wooden thumbscrew.

Wedged marking gauges.....aaaah , they make sense now, must be similar to the plough woodies as well, never own one of those either (wink wink ).

Do you think the screw has to make contact with the brass pin strip if its one of the more pricer versions with the-end-of-stem adjuster?

Yes, I've seen those Stanley oval single pin ones. The screw shouldn't make any contact with the brass strip - there should be a steel disc between them, but it often gets lost.

 

[Peter Sefton]

The brass thumb screw tightens down on the brass strip with a plastic softener on the Joseph Marples mortice gauges. This locks the pins in place when the stock is locked off.

Cheers Peter

 

[Peter Sefton]

Also to add I am a purveyors who is very much a user!

Cheers Peter

 

[Dovetaildave]

The brass thumb screw tightens down on the brass strip with a plastic softener on the Joseph Marples mortice gauges. This locks the pins in place when the stock is locked off.

Cheers Peter

Hi Peter, if the stock were turned 180 deg, so the brass thumbscrew was not touching the brass strip, would the pins move?

 

[ColeyS1]

That looks like a nice coping saw ! I really miss Axminster. It isnt the same without a paper catalogue to flip through and see what new products are available. First time I've seen them sell a coping saw with a front locking swivel thingy.

Coley

 

[Peter Sefton]

The brass thumb screw tightens down on the brass strip with a plastic softener on the Joseph Marples mortice gauges. This locks the pins in place when the stock is locked off.

Cheers Peter

Hi Peter, if the stock were turned 180 deg, so the brass thumbscrew was not touching the brass strip, would the pins move?

Yes, if the bottom thumbscrew gets knocked or moved, and if you don't untighten the brass thumbscrew in the stock the thread on the pin adjuster can get stripped.

Cheers Peter

 

[Derek Cohen (Perth Oz)]

Here are some photos of one I built. You can see the clamping mechanism ...

Most gauges are simply a variation of this.

Regards from Perth

Derek

 

[Phil Pascoe]

Now lost in house moves, I made a round one some years ago. I had an offcut of a brass pipe of about 2" diameter, so turned the head on the lathe and let a ring of the brass into the face. It worked really well.

 

[Racers]

I prefer two gauges, but I have made a mortice gauge, the knives are in line when the stems are flush, so the set the width by adjusting the stems to the width of the chisel.

7th November by Pete Maddex, on Flickr

Pete

 

[Sheffield Tony]

I do like your pencil gauge Pete.

Going back to the original question, looks to me like Joseph Marples have it right.

 

[Droogs]

I was very lucky to get 2 of Petes excellent gauges for chrimbo as part tf the secret santa and they are, I have to say they are my go to gauges now. My old ebony and brass ones are now basically gathering dust. Perhaps he could come to an arrangement with the op