Cycling question

[RogerS]

An article in today's Times got me intrigued. It talked about an App for lorry drivers that would give them a route from A to B avoiding a lot of left-hand turns and so, it was suggested, minimise the risk to cyclists. Sounded like a good idea.

Now I am not a cyclist and so have no idea if this is a sensible idea or not. Nor do I want this thread to degenerate into cyclists vs cars vs motorbikes vs pedestrians.

The thing that intrigues me is this. Surely it is well-known among cyclists that if you are at a set of traffic lights and there is a lorry in your queue of traffic that there is the strong possibility that if you were to cycle up the inside of the lorry while it was stationary at red lights to the front of the queue, that when the lights turned green there was a fair chance that the lorry might turn left across your path? Therefore to wait at the back of the lorry behind it so that if, when the lights go green, it turns left you are well clear? Doesn't self-preservation come into it?

As I say, I'm not a cyclist and so may well be missing something here.

 

[Racers]

Cyclists waiting at lights! whatever next!

:wink:

Pete

 

[Phil Pascoe]

"Doesn't self-preservation come into it?"
Not when you're king of the road.

 

[RogerS]

Ask a stupid question ..... :roll:

 

[Droogs]

As a passionate cyclist, when I get to junctions if there is no designated cycle lane or "box" at the front of the junction, if the carriageway is wide enough I will pass queuing /waiting vehicles on the right and position myself in front of the first vehicle where I KNOW that the driver can see me. If the road isn't wide enough then I take my place in the queue like everyone else but make sure that I am in a position for the driver behind me can see me clearly.
Besides, just like every other road user it's illeagal to pass on the left side of vehicles unless you are in a designated lane or in an emergency. so there should never be an instance where cyclists are at a drivers 10/11 o'clock position at a junction, unless they are in a proper cycle box

 

[mseries]

I am a cyclist. And I agree with the OP that you shouldn't ride up the inside of a lorry. People do though, people get killed when the lorry turns across them. Maybe they think they can get infront of the lorry, out of the dangerzone and into the drivers line of sight, before he moves off. Maybe they are just oblivious to the danger.

Even if it is well known that it's a dangerous practice, peoples perception of risk is different.

 

[doctor Bob]

I'll have a little rant.
The cyclist jumping red lights has become the norm now, I live in a small town and even old ladies just cycle through the lights.
I met one on a single track railway bridge controlled by lights last week, as I went through on green she appeared over the top, I gave a wave to the light colour and she flicked the "v"s at me, this is an old woman, it's getting silly.
I would have stopped and had words but she looked a bit handy and I daren't risk it since been beaten to a pulp by a sprightly octogenarian................. :lol:

 

[Bigbud78]

Cyclists waiting at lights! whatever next!

:wink:

Pete

Soap box :lol:

As a motorcyclist I spend a lot of time at the front of the cue at lights and the amount of cars that jump reds is very high. On any type of bike I will put myself in the safest place whilst trying to minimise any inconvenience to others but if my safety comes at making a car wait a short while then so be it.

Unfortunately as this is the internet you cant have a discussion about such things as people can't help themselves as the per the two tongue in cheek answers show, I don't drive a car but belong to every other hated group on the roads; Cyclist, motorcyclist and campervan driver.

The simple fact is people in vehicles are insular to what's going on around them, their thinking about the washing, work, life or that new chisel they want to buy, they switch off and don't really concentrate on what there doing. Then there's the aggression, majority of people in cars with "road rage" are bullies who think using their car as a weapon or a vehicle for intimation is fine as cyclists "insert trope" so that makes it ok.

If everyone abided by the rules including red light jumping cyclists and everyone had a little more patience, the roads would be a much more pleasant and safer place for all of us.

As to the op, cant see it being used TBH as "professional" drivers want to get to where there going asap. Manchester has installed mirrors on the traffic lights to increase viability down the N/S of the traffic cue and a blanket 20mph speed limit is on the way. Only time will tell if these help.

The thing is these articles are usually based on London who's traffic numbers are hugely different from the other cities, I might see 10 cyclists leaving Manchester on my route at 5.30 but then we don't have very good infrastructure at the moment.

 

[n0legs]

We used to have cycling proficiency sessions in the schools which taught road safety and a basic understanding of the highway code.
With the number of cyclists getting injured, or worse, you would think it's about time they were brought back.

 

[mseries]

We used to have cycling proficiency sessions in the schools which taught road safety and a basic understanding of the highway code.
With the number of cyclists getting injured, or worse, you would think it's about time they were brought back.

Do children get any form of cycling training these days ? Around here they do, I have seen groups of children with tutors being shown how to ride on proper live roads - just like we did in the 70s. I still have my Cycling Proficiency Certificate and badge.

It's adults that are being squashed by lorries in London though, perhaps they didn't bother with bikes when they were children and missed out on the training.

 

[RogerS]

We used to have cycling proficiency sessions in the schools which taught road safety and a basic understanding of the highway code.
With the number of cyclists getting injured, or worse, you would think it's about time they were brought back.

Our local primary school still has them.

 

[Jacob]

An article in today's Times got me intrigued. It talked about an App for lorry drivers that would give them a route from A to B avoiding a lot of left-hand turns and so, it was suggested, minimise the risk to cyclists. Sounded like a good idea.

Now I am not a cyclist and so have no idea if this is a sensible idea or not. Nor do I want this thread to degenerate into cyclists vs cars vs motorbikes vs pedestrians.

The thing that intrigues me is this. Surely it is well-known among cyclists that if you are at a set of traffic lights and there is a lorry in your queue of traffic that there is the strong possibility that if you were to cycle up the inside of the lorry while it was stationary at red lights to the front of the queue, that when the lights turned green there was a fair chance that the lorry might turn left across your path? Therefore to wait at the back of the lorry behind it so that if, when the lights go green, it turns left you are well clear? Doesn't self-preservation come into it?

As I say, I'm not a cyclist and so may well be missing something here.

No you are right. As a cyclist it's essential to maintain your road space. If there are traffic lanes you must stay in the middle of the lane or you risk being nudged from one side or the other.
Unfortunately some drivers don't like this and try to get past.
At a traffic light the place to stop is behind the lorry and in the middle of the lane so that you can't be pinched in. Unfortunately drivers sometimes don't like this and you get hooted at but you just have to ignore them.
If you don't feel safe it's best to get off and become a pedestrian. Drivers don't like this either and see it as cheating - you get hooted at as you push across the lights.
Maybe both cyclists and drivers should have more training.
What we definitely need is better road engineering for cyclists. Much of what they do for cyclists is a dangerous joke and it's safer to ignore them. Guess what many drivers don't like this either!

Flip through a few of these!: http://www.warringtoncyclecampaign.co.u ... the-month/

Things are getting better however as more cyclists take to the roads and we get slowly up to European standards.

 

[n0legs]

Do children get any form of cycling training these days ? Around here they do, I have seen groups of children with tutors being shown how to ride on proper live roads - just like we did in the 70s. I still have my Cycling Proficiency Certificate and badge.

It's adults that are being squashed by lorries in London though, perhaps they didn't bother with bikes when they were children and missed out on the training.

I still have mine as well :lol:
My girls didn't do any cycle training at school, they were in school from the late 90's up until 2011.
You may have a point about missing out on the training, then add into the mix some "it's like riding a bike" attitude and there may be the problem.
I'll say this though, if a motorist or a motorcyclist were to behave like some of the cyclists we see there would be points and fines handed out left right and centre.

 

[n0legs]

Our local primary school still has them.

That's really good news. It should be pushed and promoted by all local authorities IMO.
Our LA has spent thousands on cycle routes and paths. Their intent is there for more people to cycle, but folk need to do it safely.

 

[RogerS]

Jacob, why must you be in the centre of the lane? Is this your own viewpoint or suggested by others? TBH I can't see what's wrong with a cyclist being nearer the kerb..seems just being bloody minded to stick in the middle of the road. Surely you can ride off equally as well from the nearside? So why p**s off other road users ?

 

[mseries]

Jacob, why must you be in the centre of the lane? Is this your own viewpoint or suggested by others? TBH I can't see what's wrong with a cyclist being nearer the kerb..seems just being bloody minded to stick in the middle of the road. Surely you can ride off equally as well from the nearside? So why p**s off other road users ?

It's called the Primary Position, it makes you more visible, makes it harder, if not impossible for other, wider road users to pass. Read about it here https://www.britishcycling.org.uk/insig ... g-part-1-0

Junctions need to judged individually. I can certainly picture one where I prefer to be in the way, to give myself as much space as possible and discourage stupid overtaking that could well result in me being cut up and forced into the barriers on the other side of the junction. It's not being bloody minded nor intended to p**s anyone off, it's done to increase ones chances of surviving. Remember though, like motorists, not all cyclists are courteous road users.

 

[Bigbud78]

Jacob, why must you be in the centre of the lane? Is this your own viewpoint or suggested by others? TBH I can't see what's wrong with a cyclist being nearer the kerb..seems just being bloody minded to stick in the middle of the road. Surely you can ride off equally as well from the nearside? So why p**s off other road users ?

How much room are you supposed to give a cyclist when you pass ? If the cyclist is in secondary position and you allowed the correct amount of space to pass you would be in the next lane no ?

 

[John Brown]

I always cycle as though all other road users are trying to kill me and/or themselves. I drive and walk the same way. In the 56 years or so since I first ventured out on my own, nobody has yet managed to succeed in killing me, and as far as I know, I have not killed anyone else.

 

[Jacob]

Jacob, why must you be in the centre of the lane? Is this your own viewpoint or suggested by others? TBH I can't see what's wrong with a cyclist being nearer the kerb..seems just being bloody minded to stick in the middle of the road. Surely you can ride off equally as well from the nearside? So why p**s off other road users ?

If you are near the kerb drivers squeeze past and you find yourself boxed in - or worse you have no wobble room and hit the kerb.
Worst position of all is near the white line separating lanes - stuff will come past close on both sides and as you veer away from one you veer into the other. This is where you must hog the centre of the lane.
NB cyclist steer by a controlled wobble from one side to the other. The slower you go the wider the wobble. This is unavoidable they can't steer in a straight line due to physics. You see this if you look at wet bike tyre tracks near puddles etc.

PS cyclists get it horribly wrong - I nearly winged one the other day:
Approaching an island he was going slow and well in to the left with me behind him (in a car). I stayed behind so as to give him room and he went round the island staying tight in to the left and I assumed he was going straight on. Instead just as he got to the other side he turned sharp right across my path without signalling, just as I was about to pass him, assuming it was now safe. I was being really careful - he was being really stupid and didn't even appear to look behind him. Luckily nothing occurred!

 

[JohnPW]

Jacob, why must you be in the centre of the lane? Is this your own viewpoint or suggested by others? TBH I can't see what's wrong with a cyclist being nearer the kerb..seems just being bloody minded to stick in the middle of the road. Surely you can ride off equally as well from the nearside? So why p**s off other road users ?

The reason for riding out away from the left kerb when the road is narrow is so that drivers can't overtake too close, ie too small a gap between cyclist and driver. It says so in the Highway Code.

When the road is wide enough, obviously the cyclist should keep to the left (but not ride as far left as possible) but also, drivers should give more space when overtaking.

If drivers drove in a considerate manner, then cyclists wouldn't have to be in the "centre of the lane".

To give an example: I'm riding on a quiet residential street, I'm approcahing a pinch point with a traffic island in the middle of the road. There's a driver coming up from behind, and as I go through the pinch point the driver overtakes very close with inches to spare, I can easily touch the vehicle if I put out my right hand.

What is the point of that? If the driver simply took their foot off the pedal for 0.5 seconds, the overtake would not have been at the pinch point. I'm not sure why, but it always seem like drivers time it so they arrive at the pinch point at the same time as I'm going through it, even when there are no other drivers around. So, every time I go through a pinch point I look behind and if needed move to the right or put my right arm out.