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I'm looking to purchase a decent quality coping saw, to mostly be used with cutting waste for dovetails. I quite like the look of the Knew Concepts saw, but then I saw the the price tag!

Budget is around £60-£70

I currently have a crappy thing from Screwfix
 

Droogs

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I tend not to use a coping saw as i have several fretsaws and find the offer much more control and a much cleaner finish. look around for some old Hobby hand held fret saws they crop up a lot at markets and are never expensive.
 

Jacob

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Trevanion

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I saw a video recently on piercing jewelers saws which went over the Knew concepts saw, the whole video is worth a watch but if you want the bit about the KC saw it's 5:28 onwards.

[youtube]ehiRa4dNZe8[/youtube]

All in all, cheap is best :D

Jacob":zbkpb9e3 said:
You don't need one for DTs either, this is just a modern amateur fad.
Get your head out of the sand! The absolute best and fastest hand-dovetailer I ever saw used a coping saw to remove the waste and only did a light paring cut for the shoulders.
 

thetyreman

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Trevanion":1nnqvzqh said:
Jacob":1nnqvzqh said:
You don't need one for DTs either, this is just a modern amateur fad.
Get your head out of the sand! The absolute best and fastest hand-dovetailer I ever saw used a coping saw to remove the waste and only did a light paring cut for the shoulders.
actually jacob is right, you can do it with chisels, with practise it won't take long to knock out the waste, I've done it myself and it works well, also gives a far cleaner cut (if razor sharp) but the downside is that it can easily compress the wood moving the shoulder line slightly if you are not careful.
 

Trevanion

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thetyreman":2iugw4bs said:
actually jacob is right, you can do it with chisels, with practise it won't take long to knock out the waste, I've done it myself and it works well, also gives a far cleaner cut (if razor sharp) but the downside is that it can easily compress the wood moving the shoulder line slightly if you are not careful.
He's only right that you don't need a coping saw, you can certainly chop out the waste with chisels but it must be twice as fast to cut the waste with a coping saw and paring to the line rather than doing multiple chopping cuts, flipping the board over and doing the same the other side and then paring to the line.

The coping saw is the superior tool in every way for the job. Certainly not an "Amateur Fad".
 

Jacob

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thetyreman":2xq8gra2 said:
....you can do it with chisels, with practise it won't take long to knock out the waste, I've done it myself and it works well, also gives a far cleaner cut (if razor sharp) but the downside is that it can easily compress the wood moving the shoulder line slightly if you are not careful.
Once you've realised the shoulder line problem the solution becomes obvious and easy - basically you keep away and don't cut the shoulder line until there is just 1mm approx to remove.
Another trick is to get the chisel into the shoulder line but tilt it slightly towards the waste. Then when you hit it it undercuts the back of the socket but leaves the shoulder line untouched.
PS I did a finding out how to do DTs thread a bit back (I haven't done that many in the past and wanted to get up to speed)
post1301538.html#p1301538
If you scroll down I show how I chop out waste. No need for a coping saw. Basically chopping thin slices down the face - much the same as using a mortice chisel. Very easy but most importantly - very sustainable - you can keep at it for hours.
 

ED65

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Anyone advocating not using a coping saw should do some dovetail chopping in fast-growth pine or worse, spruce, and then come back to us with a report on how smoothly it went :lol:

The same chisels that will leave basically a flawless end-grain surface in oak, ash, sapele, walnut, iroko and lots of other things can trash the earlywood in the above and make it very hard (impossible for some) to get a clean pared surface. Anything that reduces the amount of paring needed in this situation is a Good Thing.
 

ED65

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transatlantic":20morbci said:
I quite like the look of the Knew Concepts saw, but then I saw the the price tag!
Eyewatering innit?!

The old standby, a vintage Eclipse, not going to cut it for you? Good enough for Paul Sellers so can't be all bad. Although I eventually found a good one secondhand and subsequently got another European brand the name of which escapes me at the moment (not Bahco, although I've had one of those too) and the Eclipse isn't quite in the same league.

Pete Maddex would recommend you make your own. It's a project that can use up some short or narrow offcuts and the tension possible is reportedly off the charts compared to most conventional coping saws.

transatlantic":20morbci said:
II currently have a crappy thing from Screwfix
Have you tried Chris Schwarz's trick for improving tension?
 

AndyT

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I wonder if some people think that you need a fine fretsaw blade, so it will go down the fine kerf made by a specialised dovetail saw?
You don't and there's an easy way round that apparent problem - stay away from the angled cuts and saw down the middle of the waste, using a coarse, quick coping saw, then steer off in a J shape into one corner. Back up to the bottom of the vertical cut and steer off into the opposite corner.
I think Jacob has posted on this in the past.

Incidentally, last time I did a batch of dovetails in softwood, I found it took about the same time using my treadle powered fretsaw, an ordinary Bahco coping saw, a stick and string framed fretsaw, or chopping all the way with a chisel. So I suggest using whichever way works for you and you enjoy doing. :)
 

topchippytom

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Coping saw in handy for everything not just dovetail joints and all timber workers should have one
 

Jacob

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ED65":15f2jq6g said:
Anyone advocating not using a coping saw should do some dovetail chopping in fast-growth pine or worse, spruce, and then come back to us with a report on how smoothly it went :lol:

The same chisels that will leave basically a flawless end-grain surface in oak, ash, sapele, walnut, iroko and lots of other things can trash the earlywood in the above and make it very hard (impossible for some) to get a clean pared surface. Anything that reduces the amount of paring needed in this situation is a Good Thing.
Bin there dunnit.
Paring doesn't come into it, not least because you don't need a pared surface - they are all out of sight. But you do need clean cut shoulder and other lines and all cut surfaces to be flat in line or undercut a touch. Doesn't matter if the surface is broken out a bit as long as the marked out lines are all clean.
Coping saw is a bit like drilling out mortices - it looks a good idea but in reality doesn't help and may hinder.
PS Mines an Eclipse. Also have fretsaws but never get used.
 

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I've got an eclipse that is lovely and a disston that is even sturdier but not as pretty. I had a stanley fatmax and it was dire!
 
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Rorschach":186tgrsf said:
I've got an eclipse that is lovely and a disston that is even sturdier but not as pretty. I had a stanley fatmax and it was dire!
I have the fatmax [PERSEVERING FACE]

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Rorschach

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transatlantic":1fbnhkr3 said:
Rorschach":1fbnhkr3 said:
I've got an eclipse that is lovely and a disston that is even sturdier but not as pretty. I had a stanley fatmax and it was dire!
I have the fatmax [PERSEVERING FACE]

Sent from my SM-J510FN using Tapatalk
Useless isn't it, I wouldn't even give it away, I don't hate anyone that much :lol:
 
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