Can you identify this mortice gauge?

[sploo]

I picked up this gauge on fleaBay as part of a job lot of tools. It's tatty, has some big cracks (that I think I can fix), but seems to move pretty well.

I notice that the (brass?) rubbing strips are very worn on the side of the face that's used against a work piece. It's not that obvious from the photo, but it's at least a 0.5mm step across the face, so I assume it must have had a lot of use.

No makers mark anywhere as far as I can see though.

 

[JimB]

Looks like an old Marples but...

 

[Cheshirechappie]

As Jim says, Marples (Joseph and William) churned them out by the thousand, but that design was pretty much a Sheffield 'standard' (fair prices for them appearing in various editions of the Sheffield List), so plenty of other makers supplied them too.

By the sounds of it, it's well worn, so if you intend it as a user, it might be a good idea to give it a test drive or two and measure the marks made to see they accord with what you set the gauge to. Worn tools can still do a good job if you know their foibles and work with them, but it would be as well to know before critical cuts are made! The one thing that usually 'finishes off' a mortice gauge is that the marking pins become sharpened away to almost nothing. I believe they can be replaced, but it's a bit of a fiddle, you have to find two very small pieces of hard, round steel, and have the tools and equipment to shape them up and fit them to the brass rods. Sometimes, it's just easier to find another gauge in better condition.

For cleaning up, have a read of AndyT's 'sticky' thread at the top of the Hand Tools board about cleaning and restoration techniques. Lots of good sense there. Even if it's worn out, it would still make a decent ornament!

 

[sploo]

Thanks. I've seen that brass detailing on the side of the stock on a number of different shaped gauges, so I assume it was some sort of standard part (or signature of a particular maker).

The beam is chipped, and there are a couple of pieces that will need some glue to prevent them from flaking off at some point. The brass slider for the second pin moves perfectly well, though the screw is rusty. There seems to be sufficient length left in the pins - though I understand 1/16" piano wire is a recommended replacement.

There's a fairly chunky chip out of the stock, but I think I could fill it with some epoxy.

The biggest issue (for accurate use) is that the pin side of the stock face is well worn. I was thinking I could take the stock off (which I've already done) and then attempt to flat it. That would "require" the rest of the gauge to be sanded back somewhat to match, but unless that's considered an act of vandalism I'll probably do it.

Paul Sellers appears to recommend sanding followed by shellac and wax, which is no problem.

 

[ED65]

That's some wear on that fence! I had no idea that even with the brass wear strips you could get that degree of wear on a gauge.

I was thinking I could take the stock off (which I've already done) and then attempt to flat it.

I would. Belt sander if you have one, but a long strip of belt sanding paper or cloth taped to the kitchen counter will do it (same idea as lapping a plane sole).

Start at P80, go through the grits to about P240. You'll need to be careful to keep the front perpendicular to the mortise or the gauge will be rendered next to useless.

That would "require" the rest of the gauge to be sanded back somewhat to match...

I'd go cautiously here as you don't want sanding of the beam to accidentally make it a too-loose fit. If you want the front face of the fence to match what I'd do personally is refinish that to match the rest of the tool. It's a purely cosmetic issue though, really only needed if you're fussy about that sort of thing.

unless that's considered an act of vandalism I'll probably do it.

These are dime a dozen. Purists will still whine about it but there are probably thousands of these still in existence so it's hardly desecrating a rare relic!

 

[AndyT]

I may get pigeonholed as a "purist" or even a whining purist, but I really don't see the need for sandpaper on that tool, not of any grade and certainly not 80 grit on a belt sander. I can see that the portion of the face that actually touches the edge of the workpiece is worn down, but so what? The high part of the face (the bit that is not worn down) does not touch the wood - it can't do - so whether it's above or below the working part is irrelevant, isn't it?

I suggest that you try the tool in use first and see if you can produce consistent marks with it. I expect you could.

As for your original question about the maker, careful cleaning may reveal a name. Try a fingertip's worth of wax on a bit of old tee shirt. In this old one of mine, you may just be able to make out the name ALFRED RIDGE in small letters

I found the same name on another one, underneath the dirt, but even fainter.

 

[ED65]

No insult intended to anyone here obvs!

I knew that bit about 80 grit would bother someone :mrgreen: Andy, you're obviously in the Original Patina Is Good camp, which is fine, but very far from where I have my tent pitched. My concept of restoration for a user is to go as far as you like, and damn the torpedoes. I would show more consideration for a tool that had some real historical rarity or collector value, but I'm unlikely to get one of those in the first place and even more unlikely to want to put it to use, so it's apples and oranges.

 

[Wildman]

Mmm could be mine nicked from my toolbox 50 years ago.

 

[sploo]

I may get pigeonholed as a "purist" or even a whining purist, but I really don't see the need for sandpaper on that tool, not of any grade and certainly not 80 grit on a belt sander. I can see that the portion of the face that actually touches the edge of the workpiece is worn down, but so what? The high part of the face (the bit that is not worn down) does not touch the wood - it can't do - so whether it's above or below the working part is irrelevant, isn't it?

I suggest that you try the tool in use first and see if you can produce consistent marks with it. I expect you could.

As for your original question about the maker, careful cleaning may reveal a name. Try a fingertip's worth of wax on a bit of old tee shirt. In this old one of mine, you may just be able to make out the name ALFRED RIDGE in small letters

Too late. I used an angle grinder.

Only joking :mrgreen:

Unfortunately the level of wear meant it's not really flat (or square to the beam). I have started some work with a belt sander, though I'll need to do more. Apart from obviously cleaning up the brass, the good news is that the wood is still suitably dark and "old" looking.

I don't generally tend to go too crazy on old tools (I want to get them clean and working, but not try to hide or fake the age). This one is probably a bit on the aggressive side by my standards.

The beam is going to require some work to glue a couple of splits, and the stock will need the crack filling, but I think it's worth the effort (also because I don't actually own another mortice gauge).

Both of the gauges I picked up (this and a much simple one that locks with a wooden wedge) have "H Bennett" stamped on the stock. I can't find any reference to Bennett as a maker (and the gauges are very different) so I'm assuming that was a previous owner.

 

[Corneel]

This kind of mortice guide is not very rare it seems. They are available everywhere in Brittain for reasonable prices. I don't quite understand then though from the picures.

Do you lock the beam with a screw driver? And does the screw make dimples in the beam like some of my old gauges do, and which makes it harder and harder to set it accurately? And how does that system work for setting the mortice width, is there a screw adjustment at the end of the beam?

I am contemplating to have one or two send over the Northsea.

 

[sploo]

This kind of mortice guide is not very rare it seems. They are available everywhere in Brittain for reasonable prices. I don't quite understand then though from the picures.

Do you lock the beam with a screw driver? And does the screw make dimples in the beam like some of my old gauges do, and which makes it harder and harder to set it accurately? And how does that system work for setting the mortice width, is there a screw adjustment at the end of the beam?

I am contemplating to have one or two send over the Northsea.

Yes, locking via screwdriver on this one, though you could replace the screw with a knurled headed one. The screw usually presses on a small brass disc, so it doesn't damage the brass beam parts (take care not to lose it when dismantling one!).

The mortice width is set with the screw at the bottom of the beam.

 

[Corneel]

Thanks sploo, sounds like a good design.

 

[lurker]

I seem to remember saving the copper decimal half pennies to put under the screw on these to stop the screw cutting the beam.

Anyone else done this?

 

[sploo]

I finally got round to restoring the gauge. It needed a fair bit of sanding to bring the upper face back to flat, some superglue to fix a few splitting parts on the beam, and an epoxy/sanding dust mix to fill the larger crack on the stock. But, once done it had a couple of coats of shellac and then wax, and it's looking pretty decent and working well:

As part of the original purchase, I also got this marking/cutting gauge. Maybe a home made job rather than a commercial product, but it's come up nice too: