Are there really people this uneducated?

[owsnap]

long story short, I need to ask people the area of their rooms from time to time to quote for a job, yet I get a feeling that 70-80% of people I ask to measure & tell me are unable to do this. I mean they just don't know how to calculate a square area of something,usually they just say flat out that they don't know how to or ask to wait to get someone to do it...
I see online/ all around that everything is sold to fit a small/medium/large room, in stores people buy packs of flooring not the actual square metrage they need which really suggests that this is national..

what the hell??? #-o

 

[lurker]

it would appear to be a sign of "coolness" to be poor at maths.

 

[RobinBHM]

It is sometimes the case that people want a quote but are too lazy to do any work for it, they want you to come round and do all the work.

I often get vague enquiries for orangery design/ pricing, joinery etc and I sometimes suggest they email me some photos of the house and some dimensions. Its surprising how often I never hear from them!

In an initial discussion about an orangery or conservatory I tend to ask what size and quite often I get 'Ive no idea'

Or I get somebody ringing up asking about pricing for an x by x size, and when I suggest a budget they then say, does that include heating? tiles? electrics? etc etc.

 

[MattRoberts]

Most people these days work in jobs with (or even without) computers that need zero mathematical ability. I've forgotten most of the maths I learned at school, as the majority of it isn't needed in my daily life or job.

It's a bit sad really.

 

[Random Orbital Bob]

Why would you expect someone whose expertise is in perhaps accounting or medicine to understand conservatory construction?

 

[owsnap]

Why would you expect someone whose expertise is in perhaps accounting or medicine to understand conservatory construction?

#-o #-o #-o #-o #-o #-o #-o #-o #-o #-o
how could they even get in to accounting if they didn't even know the 1st thing they teach in maths?
Is ''calculating'' a square area of a basic rectangle really a rocket science?
Could have just said right off the bat that since you got a calculator in your phone why would you need to know what is 2x2 ..
I have forgotten probably 80% of the formulas I was thought because the only time I used them was that one time in class, but how can you not know such a basic thing? #-o

 

[Random Orbital Bob]

Think you may have slightly missed my point! Robin was talking about prospective customers asking about the inclusion of tiles, heating etc in a conservatory quote. That was what prompted the comment about areas of expertise. It sort of strayed away from the op's lament on poor understanding of basic spatial maths.

 

[Random Orbital Bob]

But to be truthful, I'm stuck in the radiology dept waiting for my sons x Ray so I'm kind of bored and typing rubbish really

 

[NikNak]

Couldn't agree more with the OP.....the times i've had people look at me in awe at how i worked out what they needed to go and buy :shock: and yet it really is just very simple maths.

My middle sister and her husband have just had flooring laid throughout the downstairs of their small 2 bed modern end terraced house. He calculated what he needed, bought it from the internet (unseen :? ) and got their son's friend to come and lay it. No problem. He then rang me the next day and said was i interested in the left over 'packs' of flooring.... 9sq mtrs of it..!! #-o :shock: the whole job couldn't have been more than 30sq mtrs. "cant you send it back..." i inquired... nahh cant be pineappled was the reply

 

[RogerP]

For those who really struggle to multiply two numbers together there are many flooring calculators on web and several apps for those with smartphones.

 

[deema]

I have over the years tutored people for their maths exams, I've also taught at college for a period, and to put this into context I'm at the half century with probably fewer years ahead of me than I have so far enjoyed.

What I have seen is the stunning dumbing down of the maths syllabus from one that gave people a real appreciating of maths at O level to one now where an A* wouldn't register IMO as a 'D' 35 years ago. 'A' levels that now just about cover most of the requirements of the O level 35 years ago. When starting out with would be engineers in employment they need to be taught basic stuff as again the degrees have been watered down to such an extent that they are almost a waste of time.

It's not I feel that the latest generations are less able, in reality they are probably more able. We have I feel in our desire to drive up standards achieved better results by watering down the syllabus and pass marks.

In the old system, only a certain percentage of those taking exams would ever get an 'A'. An 'A' meant something, now I think it's just means you have 'A'chieved.

Apologise to all those of younger years with a fist full of A*. The system has alas IMO let you down.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

My neighbour was a retired maths teacher who always said that the biggest problem with people being reliant upon calculators was that they lost the ability to estimate, and thus decimal point errors were the commonest mistake. In bygone years someone would work out e.g. the amount of 6" boards needed to cover a room, look at the answer for a moment and think hang on a mo that doesn't look right and check it again. Now the calculator is a god - it doesn't make mistakes: but they forget the operator still does.

 

[Claymore]

it would appear to be a sign of "coolness" to be poor at maths.

If this is the case then I must be James Dean/Marlon Brando and Elvis all in one! (in my dreams)

I must agree though when people like Joey Essex earns more per year than highly skilled people who have trained for years get in a lifetime there is something wrong...... good on the lad anyway if people are so daft to pay him then he's probably laughing all the way to the bank.

Brian

 

[bugbear]

it would appear to be a sign of "coolness" to be poor at maths.

I don't know about "cool", but in Artistic/Creative circles, inability in maths is often seen as a virtue.

This was famously commented on a very long time ago;

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Two_Cultures

BugBear

 

[Bm101]

That's a great link BB, thanks.
When I was at school I found certain subjects easy. I read a fair bit as a kid and my language skills were fairly good. But I struggled at subjects where a different type of thinking was involved. Chemistry and maths etc were a real struggle. I've often wondered why the schism occurs.
Without going down the whole nature / nurture blackhole it still intrigues me. As I grew older I relished the challenge of challenging myself more. I no longer balk at things that would have shut my thought process down as a kid but I have to consciously make an effort. Electrical drawings and such baffle me. I still have to really make an concerted effort to stop the mental block from winning.
I suppose my point is that it's easier to reduce the flow on the tap rather than deal with a flooded sink. When work, kids and so on wear you out sometimes it's easier to say... I dunno. Do it for me.
Years back I was at a friends house. They had suffered a bit of a washing machine flood and the leccy had blown. Bit of a dodgy one really. I was trying to explain not dying while replacing fuses and to baffled faces started to explain the basics of ring mains and spurs. They were bright people but just went rabbit in the headlights and said no, we don't need to know. But it's your house. Why would you not want to know the basics? I guess some people forget they can keep learning. Not sure it makes them stupid. Just they forget to keep trying.
Also I guess some people just have different prorities. Nothing wrong with that.

 

[Terry - Somerset]

The trouble is that it is socially acceptable to be dumb about maths - almost something which engenders amused sympathy.

But most would be ashamed to admit to anything approaching full illiteracy, and will contrive to deny and find strategies to avoid it becoming apparent.

The solution may be better education and far less tolerance of innumeracy. It would be unreasonable to expect people to achieve high levels of competence - but an inability to do basic sums and measurement should not be treated so lightly.

It's no wonder there is so much financial irregularity (PPI etc) when so many customers are so woefully ignorant.

 

[skipdiver]

"There is more stupidity than hydrogen in the universe, and it has a stronger shelf life"

Frank Zappa.

 

[rafezetter]

Years back I was at a friends house. They had suffered a bit of a washing machine flood and the leccy had blown. Bit of a dodgy one really. I was trying to explain not dying while replacing fuses and to baffled faces started to explain the basics of ring mains and spurs. They were bright people but just went rabbit in the headlights and said no, we don't need to know. But it's your house. Why would you not want to know the basics?

I had a similar experience not long back with a long time single lady who owns a house (and has done for 15 years) who didn't know where her mains fuse box was or her gas and water stop taps. The mains fusebox was in her kitchen in a cupboard at the end and seemed totally unbothered by saying "oh is that what that is?".

I know that 5 years previous she managed to flood her bathroom when a tap "malfunctioned" in some way, causing an insurance claim that ran over £10,000 as the bathroom is over the kitchen and front room. She was out of her house for 4 months.

As far as being able to work out or measure sizes of home areas; if I owned a house I'd make sure I knew certain basics, just because, because frankly I think if you don't know the basic dimensions of your home & garden you come across as a bit of an silly person.

And explains why so many people return furniture, especially seating, because it's too big.

 

[RogerS]

Why would you expect someone whose expertise is in perhaps accounting or medicine to understand conservatory construction?

I wouldn't. But I'd at least expect them to have an idea as to what size they wanted. Or even style and design.

I'm also with the poster who asks for photos beforehand to filter out the inevitable tyre-kickers AKA time-wasters of which there are far too many.

 

[RogerS]

.....It would be unreasonable to expect people to achieve high levels of competence - but an inability to do basic sums and measurement should not be treated so lightly.

....

It's called 'Dumbing Down' and is what our current society excels at.