Another Extraction Question

[wizer]

Just a quicky

If I change the drum on my RSDE2 (like a camvac) to a bigger one or a smaller one or even a bag, will it affect the suck or performance in anyway?

I'm thinking about 'doing a Rob' and dumping the drop box idea and just taking the head off the RSDE2 and fitting it either to the top of a wheelie bin or cutting the bottom off the drum, fitting a bag and mounting it on the wall.

All based around making emptying easier and not particularly caring about filters or motor life.

 

[Harbo]

I should not think so - I have a Record DX5000 but you will need a cage similar to that to prevent the bags sucking up.
I even use 2 bags to prevent splitting!

Should be OK in a bigger drum as long as you can make it reasonably air tight?
I tried the previous Axminster dust bin lid fitment to increase capacity but it did not work too well - I was loosing a lot of suck. I think they have a new design now?

Rod

 

[big soft moose]

Should be OK in a bigger drum as long as you can make it reasonably air tight?

duct tape is your freind in that department.

 

[wizer]

Should be OK in a bigger drum as long as you can make it reasonably air tight?

duct tape is your freind in that department.

I don't think that's necessary. My RSDE2 hasn't had the securing straps on for over a year. It works every bit as well with the lid just resting on the drum. If I was to make it to go over the wheelie then the motor\filter would be fixed into some ply and then I would make the ply a snug fit into the opening of the wheelie, which has a lip al around. If needs be I could add some weather strip or something. But a snug fit should do it IMO.

The conundrum is to work out how to make the lid (with the motor) flip or lift out of the way on bin day without having to physically lift it off.

Maybe some sort of pulley :-k

 

[Chems]

Tom does your RSDE2 suck throught the 100mm hose? I mean suck in the bad sense, or in the normal sense the question works both ways. Mine won't suck through it, I always use the smaller powertool hose it works very well but I was just wondering as you don't have a larger extractor for your P/T?

 

[DavidE]

Should be OK in a bigger drum as long as you can make it reasonably air tight?

duct tape is your freind in that department.

I don't think that's necessary. My RSDE2 hasn't had the securing straps on for over a year. It works every bit as well with the lid just resting on the drum. If I was to make it to go over the wheelie then the motor\filter would be fixed into some ply and then I would make the ply a snug fit into the opening of the wheelie, which has a lip al around. If needs be I could add some weather strip or something. But a snug fit should do it IMO.

The conundrum is to work out how to make the lid (with the motor) flip or lift out of the way on bin day without having to physically lift it off.

Maybe some sort of pulley :-k

Sounds like a good idea and I can't see it having any noticable effect on the efficiency. your system sounds good and it would seal itself down with the weather strip. I guess a pulley would work or some ingenious hinged/ sliding system of some sorts.

David

 

[wizer]

Tom does your RSDE2 suck throught the 100mm hose? I mean suck in the bad sense, or in the normal sense the question works both ways. Mine won't suck through it, I always use the smaller powertool hose it works very well but I was just wondering as you don't have a larger extractor for your P/T?

It works really well through both. The RSDE2 is a bit in limbo at the moment. I'm not sure what to dedicate to it. I do actually have a 2HP Chip extractor which I normally use for the P/T but it's the other side of the workshop now and it means running the hose across the workshop to the opposite wall. Actually because I couldn't be pineappled to do that, yesterday I was using it with the RSDE2 and it's more than capable at collecting the chips from the JET.

I think I'm going to plumb the RSDE2 in to a duct system and have a spur at the lathe for sanding, one above the TS, one behind the mitre saw and maybe a couple of spurs for clearing up. At my bench I have a Henry hiding in the cupboard with a hose poking out the side which runs up to the bench. I used that for power sanding, biscuit jointing, etc.

The issue is that the chip collector is ideally suited to the TS and P/T but where it currently lives, is unable to easily reach them without long runs of hose.

 

[Chems]

Do you use both the filter and the cloth bag? Mine could barely lift a plane shaving from the floor. Olly said it was the same when he had it. Its good with the smaller hose thou.

 

[wizer]

They do three filters. The cartridge that goes over the motor, the outer cloth and then a large .5 micron cloth filter that fits around the lid. I have the cartridge and the first cloth and I can loose large chunks of wood if I'm not careful, when using the 4 inch hose. I use it mainly with the smaller hose for clearing up around the lathe atm. But, as I say, it will extract 99% of the chipping from the Jet PT.

 

[Chems]

Well I use the big elastic bag over the bin all the time, maybe thats the diffrence. Thanks for the info!

 

[jpt]

I dont know about that make but Camvac use the same motor on all its models the only difference is the size of the drum in some cases. So I would have thought putting a bigger drum on wouldnt make any difference.

john

 

[Harbo]

Camvac may use the same motors but the bigger models use 2 or 3 of them.

I had a 286W but sold it as it would not cope with the shavings from my P/T.
It could be that the 2.5" inlet was causing the problem.
Bought a Record DX5000 which was on special offer at the time and much cheaper than the equivalent Camvac. It's very powerful especially with both motors running!

Rod

 

[TEO]

Wizer,

Why not make a mini cyclone to go between extractor and appliances? The extractor can be mounted wherever you want, the cyclone saves on filters and is easy to empty.

I'm sure you've considered it, what am I missing?

If I can find the link again I'll post it but it seemed as though a couple of fermenting bins, a traffic cone and a few 40mm waste joints were all that's needed to make an effective cyclone.

T

 

[wizer]

I just don't understand what the fuss is all about with cyclones.

"Why not make a mini cyclone to go between extractor and appliances"

Because, in doing that, I would double the footprint of my dust extractor by having a wheelie bin with a cyclone on top and an extractor next to it like this:

As it is, I'm not sure if I can permanently fit a wheelie bin in. The RSDE2 is more mobile, so it can be shoved out of the way at the moment.

This idea is purely to save my back when emptying. I really don't care about the filters, as I said above, they last me at least two years. Dust extractors didn't die every five minutes before the cyclone idea become popular. They do nothing to increase suck, so I'm not particularly bothered about having one, they do nothing for me. If space, time and money were not an object, then I'd have one just to say I had one.

 

[OPJ]

Well I use the big elastic bag over the bin all the time, maybe thats the diffrence. Thanks for the info!

Yeah, I'd agree with that. If you remove the 0.5 micron cloth filter then you should find the suction increases with the 100mm hose. It's also worth checking the state of the paper and cartridge filters - any dust around there can also have a surprising effect on the airflow. Oh, and because you cannot 'lock' the lid in place, make sure it's sat on top fairly evenly, with no large gaps around the edges. :wink:

I used it with my old P/T once and it was okay, to be fair... Not quite as good as my dedicated HVLP extractor and they do fill up with shavings very quickly - another point; the higher the amount of waste inside the drum, the more it reduces the airflow.

 

[miles_hot]

I just don't understand what the fuss is all about with cyclones.

"Why not make a mini cyclone to go between extractor and appliances"

Because, in doing that, I would double the footprint of my dust extractor by having a wheelie bin with a cyclone on top and an extractor next to it like this:

As it is, I'm not sure if I can permanently fit a wheelie bin in. The RSDE2 is more mobile, so it can be shoved out of the way at the moment.

This idea is purely to save my back when emptying. I really don't care about the filters, as I said above, they last me at least two years. Dust extractors didn't die every five minutes before the cyclone idea become popular. They do nothing to increase suck, so I'm not particularly bothered about having one, they do nothing for me. If space, time and money were not an object, then I'd have one just to say I had one.

My understanding was that the pre-separators can have a positive impact on suck as the suck will decrease as the filters cake (and thus improve their filtration). Thus reducing the speed at which the filters clog up will increase their suck over time. Mind you if you're vacing the filters on a regular basis this is negated but I'd worry about where the dust then goes as I know my vac's filters are more or less straight through pipes!

Miles

 

[big soft moose]

I just don't understand what the fuss is all about with cyclones.

"Why not make a mini cyclone to go between extractor and appliances"

Because, in doing that, I would double the footprint of my dust extractor by having a wheelie bin with a cyclone on top and an extractor next to it like this:
.

like miles said the cyclone or other preseperator does increase suck because it stops ther filters getting clogged up - vacuuming off the filters is not a great plan because it either just clogs up your vacuum filter instead, or more likely goes straight through the vacuum filter and into the air - thus defating the point of having an extractor in the first place.

on the footprint thing you have a point, but it could be put in one unit above or below the sucker - at work the plan is to put the DE on the outside/partion wall of the workshop (ie in the main space but not inside the woodshop) so if we put a seperate clyclone or drop box that will go in the same place to avoid having an impact on workshop space

 

[Mike.C]

I just don't understand what the fuss is all about with cyclones.

"Why not make a mini cyclone to go between extractor and appliances"

Because, in doing that, I would double the footprint of my dust extractor by having a wheelie bin with a cyclone on top and an extractor next to it like this:

As it is, I'm not sure if I can permanently fit a wheelie bin in. The RSDE2 is more mobile, so it can be shoved out of the way at the moment.

This idea is purely to save my back when emptying. I really don't care about the filters, as I said above, they last me at least two years. Dust extractors didn't die every five minutes before the cyclone idea become popular. They do nothing to increase suck, so I'm not particularly bothered about having one, they do nothing for me. If space, time and money were not an object, then I'd have one just to say I had one.

The cyclone is supposed to protect our lungs by stopping the fine dust reaching the filter in your extractor and then being expelled out into the workshop where you will breath the finest stuff in, or that is how I see it, and I would be grateful if someone will correct me if I am wrong. (Its a pet hate of mine mostly because I cannot seem to get a good system up and running :roll: )
Anyway if the above is correct then surely this only applies to a chip/double bag extractor because the extractors like Tom's RSDE2-A are sealed and do not expel any air or dust back into the workshop?

Am I missing something?

Cheers

Mike

 

[miles_hot]

extractors like Tom's RSDE2-A are sealed and do not expel any air or dust back into the workshop?

Am I missing something?

Cheers

Mike

I hadn't realised that Tom was running a sodding great balloon which over time takes in all the air in the shop etc - no wonder he's concerned about foot print; by the end of the day he must be squashed into the corner in some claustrophobic, rubber fetishist nightmare! I'd be very worried about all the sharp edges in the shop - can you imagine the explosion?

Miles

 

[wizer]

I can't comment about the fine dust that the filter (might) miss. But hopefully the respirator (which I wear whenever actually using machinery and the (soon to be procured) air filter, will deal with this. I think that's a lot of protection for a home workshop. As I say, if I ever get the room, I'll have a cyclone. Just because I can.