Advice on a combination machine most likely to come up in the UK

[TradRob]

Hi all,

For many years I had the luxury of having a professional workshop I could use. Large Martin panel saws and planers etc. I am soon moving away to Plymouth and am looking to set up my own workshop. Woodwork is my hobby.

The space I have is about 10m x 5m. Most of my work will be sheet ply and solid oak for cabinets and furniture respectively.

I did think about buying a sliding panel saw but the space I have is a little limited for sure a large machine and I'm not sure the doors would even be large enough. I would rather like a slider as I like using them and I like how accurate they are for repeated panel cuts.

So, I have been thinking of maybe buying a nice combination machine with a budget of up to £10k. The issue I have is that most of the online articles about combination machines are about machines which do not often come up in the UK.

So my questons are

1 - Where should I be looking outside of eBay for used combination machines? Are these forums a good place?
2 - Which companies make combi machines which pop up on the UK used market? I have mostly seen Robland machines and a few SCMs. I would not like to buy a cheap machine from China.

If anyone has any general advice or suggestions I would love to hear them!

Rob

 

[Jacob]

Mines an SCM Minimax Lab300n and I rate it highly. SCM are good for service too. 2 minor breakdowns in 20 years which they diagnosed over the phone and parts arrived following day both times: a switch and a capacitor.
Mines an older model and they crop up 2nd hand around £2k. The newer version is the Lab300p at £8k ish.
Get one with the extra long sliding table if you can - they are much more useful than I imagined.
My machine will go through a 30" door with some of the tackle taken off - no problem.
It'll take a heavy door on the sliding table extension sideways on, at a pinch. I can do 8x4 sheets with the other end sitting on benching, which I built at the same height, with this in mind.

 

[Sachakins]

https://www.daltonswadkin.com/product/scm-minimax-lab-300p-universal-combination/#productAccordions
In Nottingham

 

[TradRob]

Mines an SCM Minimax Lab300n and I rate it highly. SCM are good for service too. 2 minor breakdowns in 20 years which they diagnosed over the phone and parts arrived following day both times: a switch and a capacitor.
Mines an older model and they crop up 2nd hand around £2k. The newer version is the Lab300p at £8k ish.
Get one with the extra long sliding table if you can - they are much more useful than I imagined.
My machine will go through a 30" door with some of the tackle taken off - no problem.
It'll take a heavy door on the sliding table extension sideways on, at a pinch. I can do 8x4 sheets with the other end sitting on benching, which I built at the same height, with this in mind.

I have heard good things about SCM. The nice thing is that they also do 240V machines. I am looking at a full size SCM tomorrow and it's a 3 phase machine which would use up most of my workshop. Having used a Martin for years I am probably a little spoilt!
My ideal would be a second hand from 10 years ago +. I don't need electronics and I don't mind manual angle and height changes. I am in no rush these days.

 

[TradRob]

https://www.daltonswadkin.com/product/scm-minimax-lab-300p-universal-combination/#productAccordions
In Nottingham

I did look at this earlier. I feel that new is 60% of the value of these machines. They should last for a very long time and I just don't see their value matching their price.

 

[MikeK]

If I had the space in my shop to take advantage of the infeed and outfeed for the P/T and spindle moulder, I would have the Minimax LAB 300P. Instead, I have the Minimax SC2 Classic and the Minimax FS 30G (no spindle moulder) and can line up the FS 30G with the shop door to handle long slabs. This morning, I was milling 3-meter boards, and I would not be able to do this with the LAB 300P.

 

[Jacob]

I did look at this earlier. I feel that new is 60% of the value of these machines. They should last for a very long time and I just don't see their value matching their price.

Difficult thing to estimate. SCM does mean high build quality and good design.

 

[Jacob]

If I had the space in my shop to take advantage of the infeed and outfeed for the P/T and spindle moulder, I would have the Minimax LAB 300P. Instead, I have the Minimax SC2 Classic and the Minimax FS 30G (no spindle moulder) and can line up the FS 30G with the shop door to handle long slabs. This morning, I was milling 3-meter boards, and I would not be able to do this with the LAB 300P.

The long sliding table helps with long stuff. It's 5' or so but by the time you've gone from start to finish of cut it's effectively nearly a 10' table, depending on what you are trying to cut. It also helps with getting large pieces past the saw, heavy timbers or even pieces of furniture clamped on

 

[baldkev]

Brizzle to plymuff??
Get good insurance

On a serious note, what exactly are you going to be making? I had a robland/ startrite combo, it was a halfway house that didnt tick any boxes for me.
Newer machines will be better, but on mine, the tablesaw was not coplanar to the planer, so you could only plane 8" wide stock with no chance of overhang. The tablesaw had something like 220mm rip width between the blade and the fence which is probably enough if you just want to make windows and doors, but impossible to rip down sheet material, so do your homework on any prospective model.
I concluded that seperate machines were better for me and sold it on again

 

[Yojevol]

@TradRob
You've come just at the time; I'm about to put my Felder on the market at a price well within your budget including all the tooling. It resides in my 10 x 6 w/s. I'm pretty sure you could accommodate it. Come and have a look. I'm only an hour up the M5. PM me if interested.
Brian

 

[TradRob]

If I had the space in my shop to take advantage of the infeed and outfeed for the P/T and spindle moulder, I would have the Minimax LAB 300P. Instead, I have the Minimax SC2 Classic and the Minimax FS 30G (no spindle moulder) and can line up the FS 30G with the shop door to handle long slabs. This morning, I was milling 3-meter boards, and I would not be able to do this with the LAB 300P.

Hi Mike,
Not sure I follow. Why would you not be able to mill a 3m board on the LAB? With roller stands you should be able to mill any length really? I may be confused as I've never had to use a combi machine.

 

[TradRob]

Brizzle to plymuff??
Get good insurance

On a serious note, what exactly are you going to be making? I had a robland/ startrite combo, it was a halfway house that didnt tick any boxes for me.
Newer machines will be better, but on mine, the tablesaw was not coplanar to the planer, so you could only plane 8" wide stock with no chance of overhang. The tablesaw had something like 220mm rip width between the blade and the fence which is probably enough if you just want to make windows and doors, but impossible to rip down sheet material, so do your homework on any prospective model.
I concluded that seperate machines were better for me and sold it on again

Bris to Plym indeed. Family life and the rest of it makes the move sound like a good idea!
I'm going to be making furniture for my home and cabinets too. I imagine that will take a few years to do properly and after that I will be using the workshop to maybe make cabinets to sell. Largest thing I am going to realistically make is a large wardrobe.

Like I said, I've been in the luxurious position of having access to the bee's knees of equipment so I may well need something much, much simpler.
At the moment I'm looking at either a good combo (£8-10k new) or separated. I can find a full sized SCM panel saw which will take a 8x4 sheet with 4' on the rip fence for about £2k used. All I would really need then is a planer/thicknesser. I'd be happy to get by without the spindle moulder and mortices would be done with a domino.

 

[MikeK]

Hi Mike,
Not sure I follow. Why would you not be able to mill a 3m board on the LAB? With roller stands you should be able to mill any length really? I may be confused as I've never had to use a combi machine.

This is a limitation of my shop, and not the machine. If you have the infeed and outfeed room, there is no limit to what you can pass through the LAB 300P, or any similar machine. My shop is not that large and I would not be able to position the LAB 300P such that I could manage anything longer than two meters.

I also considered the SCM C 30G, which is smaller than the LAB 300P, but would have the same limitations because of my shop layout.

 

[TradRob]

This is a limitation of my shop, and not the machine. If you have the infeed and outfeed room, there is no limit to what you can pass through the LAB 300P, or any similar machine. My shop is not that large and I would not be able to position the LAB 300P such that I could manage anything longer than two meters.

I also considered the SCM C 30G, which is smaller than the LAB 300P, but would have the same limitations because of my shop layout.

I understand. Thanks Mike. I know when my colleagues commissioned their space they cut a 5m length of timber and walked around it in all possible ways to see what would and what would not work. Being able to open the door in front of the spindle moulder was enough to make the whole space work without resorting to wheels.

 

[MikeK]

The conditions that existed when I designed and built my shop, and bought the machines, changed a few years later. Initially, I had 5 x 5 meters out of a 10 x 5 meter space to work with, which I reduced to 4.5 x 5 meters so I could build a closet dust collection system. This limited what would fit, and aside from the miter workstation and saw, every machine had to be mobile. I used SketchUp to model the proposed shop and locate the equipment.

I wanted a small cabinet saw, but these are not available here. Axminster would not ship the large machines to Germany and Laguna products were not available. My choices were small contractor saws from the big box stores, or sliders from any of the commercial providers. My first choice was the Hammer K3, but the long and ambiguous lead time and additional post-purchase expenses made this a non-starter. I am very happy with the SC2C.

 

[TradRob]

@MikeK Makes sense. I have seen a lot of strange info on the delivery times for the Hammer stuff. 3 months lead time is long enough to know that it could be delayed again by a month or two.

My preference with tools is to buy second hand generally. They have a track record of working.

 

[Jameshow]

@TradRob
You've come just at the time; I'm about to put my Felder on the market at a price well within your budget including all the tooling. It resides in my 10 x 6 w/s. I'm pretty sure you could accommodate it. Come and have a look. I'm only an hour up the M5. PM me if interested.
Brian

Sounds good?

 

[MikeK]

@MikeK Makes sense. I have seen a lot of strange info on the delivery times for the Hammer stuff. 3 months lead time is long enough to know that it could be delayed again by a month or two.

In 2017, The Felder (Hammer) salesman told me the saw would be ready 90-120 days after full payment, but added the date could be later. Once notified the saw was ready, I had to make my own collection and shipping arrangements. Also, if I was interested, I could pay for commissioning.

By contrast, the SC2C was in stock and the price included delivery, assembly, and commissioning.

My preference with tools is to buy second hand generally. They have a track record of working.

I don't have a problem buying quality used machines, especially if I can see them in use before I buy. I would be on the way to @Yojevol's shop now.

 

[baldkev]

I too would recommend finding out more from Brian, he will have looked after that machine

 

[Jameshow]

I too would recommend finding out more from Brian, he will have looked after that machine

Does it come with the shop and the land for the shop?!