bugbear
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JonnyW":3260tjjv said:
In the old catalogues, long paring chisels are listed in both firmer and bevel edged styles.
BugBear
3mm Bevel Edged Chisel - Really?
- Thread starter JonnyW
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In the old catalogues, long paring chisels are listed in both firmer and bevel edged styles.
BugBear
Jacob
New Luddism. Wake up and resist.
Really? I always think of a "paring" chisel as being as close to a long razor blade as you can practically get, so a firmer shape wouldn't suit. But then there is no agreed definition, so anything goes!bugbear":3lxdh44b said:
Nice Pete - nice. I love the London pattern handles. I bought four of them to put on my old Sorby chisels, but haven't gotten around to doing it yet. I maybe should've been true to their original standard rosewood handle style, but I love how the London pattern handles sit in your hand. Also very good if you have a diabolically levelled bench!!
I love your boxes - it's hard to tell, are they wall mounted? I'm in the early stages of designing a large wall mounted tool cabinet (one of many jobs that constantly gets relegated due to a demanding client I married!).
Jonny
I love your boxes - it's hard to tell, are they wall mounted? I'm in the early stages of designing a large wall mounted tool cabinet (one of many jobs that constantly gets relegated due to a demanding client I married!).
Jonny
G S Haydon
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I know Jacob can be a touch heavy on the comments and perhaps he need not get involved. However his approaches and experience are proven and his opinion worth listening too. As D_W mentioned its not really our business to worry about what people are buying any how they are doing it, I like seeing the various solutions that modern makers have come up with.
"the unwary might get the impression that some of these expensive tools are essential and will radically improve their woodwork. They rarely are and they usually won't, which can be disappointing if you've laid out £100s on stuff you can get 2nd hand for peanuts" was a comment Jacob made. While there is little detail about which old tools should be selected for us in the UK it's pretty much true. It's a gift that there is so much high quality tools out there for very little.
I don't think he would want anybody to stop buying whatever they like I know I don't! I think if Jacob were to come up with his own "Anarchist" style tool list it would be a very helpful guide for practical woodworking.
"the unwary might get the impression that some of these expensive tools are essential and will radically improve their woodwork. They rarely are and they usually won't, which can be disappointing if you've laid out £100s on stuff you can get 2nd hand for peanuts" was a comment Jacob made. While there is little detail about which old tools should be selected for us in the UK it's pretty much true. It's a gift that there is so much high quality tools out there for very little.
I don't think he would want anybody to stop buying whatever they like I know I don't! I think if Jacob were to come up with his own "Anarchist" style tool list it would be a very helpful guide for practical woodworking.
G S Haydon":k3qr3s0e said:
I can tell you that's a book I'd buy. I would never challenge the man's knowledge and experience, and for the record, Jacob's comments usually have me nodding in agreement. It's all banter and fun, and should stay that way.
I do believe in the 'buy when you need' approach - that principle makes complete sense, however this is not an approach I took, as I've already stated, I'm a stupid addict when it comes to tool buying.
Jonny
G S Haydon
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Like I said Jonny, it does not matter a jot what we buy and how we do it. I have some stuff that is far from essential for my work, I was lucky enough to buy it for reasons beyond it being just practical and efficient at its job.
If I'm honest the only stuff I've bought that has been just for what I've required would be my regular tools I use at work. Kinda stuff you'd pick up from form a builders merchant really. My hobby kit has become mostly vintage and I discovered I tend to prefer them. There is something I really enjoy about using them, they feel right and appropriate. The bar was set very high by the people who made them.
I like to see the new stuff too but something just always brings me back to the older stuff.
If I'm honest the only stuff I've bought that has been just for what I've required would be my regular tools I use at work. Kinda stuff you'd pick up from form a builders merchant really. My hobby kit has become mostly vintage and I discovered I tend to prefer them. There is something I really enjoy about using them, they feel right and appropriate. The bar was set very high by the people who made them.
I like to see the new stuff too but something just always brings me back to the older stuff.
There are plenty of good tool lists in the old woodworking manuals. Try Modern Cabinet Work by Wells & Hooper (modern in this case being the early 1900's). None of the lists you'll find will delight those who thrive on redundancy -- several smoothers, many sets of chisels, lots and lots of saws whose conformation and function are either identical or so close as to be essentially meaningless.
One can reconcile these lists with their own purchasing habits, philosophy, etc. or ignore them altogether.
To be clear, these lists are found in woodworking manuals and not collector's guides. If you assembled the kit of tools recommended in these books you presumably would have everything you need to build, but not necessarily embellish, furniture -- carving kit and moulding planes are not covered in the basic kit of tools but in the chapters on carving and making mouldings if the book includes this information. A kit for a joiner might vary slightly - especially somebody heavily involved in making windows, doors, and stairs.
There really is no mystery here and any quibbles, minor (or should be). Assembling a kit of tools for making furniture is not a process imbued with a lot of whimsy, no matter how much somebody wishes it were so.
If buying tools scratches some other itch beyond what you need to build the projects you have in mind, then it's a matter of something else, essentially inexplicable taste, "I like chocolate and you like vanilla." You'll find no shortage of people on woodworking forums ready to enable and encourage this sort of thing. There's nothing necessarily wrong with it, people 'collect' lots of things.
Speaking for myself and my own situation, if I decided to collect plumber's tools I fear somebody in my family would expect me to fix a leaking pipe someday. They would be sorely disappointed! Mere ownership of the tools does not a plumber make.
One can reconcile these lists with their own purchasing habits, philosophy, etc. or ignore them altogether.
To be clear, these lists are found in woodworking manuals and not collector's guides. If you assembled the kit of tools recommended in these books you presumably would have everything you need to build, but not necessarily embellish, furniture -- carving kit and moulding planes are not covered in the basic kit of tools but in the chapters on carving and making mouldings if the book includes this information. A kit for a joiner might vary slightly - especially somebody heavily involved in making windows, doors, and stairs.
There really is no mystery here and any quibbles, minor (or should be). Assembling a kit of tools for making furniture is not a process imbued with a lot of whimsy, no matter how much somebody wishes it were so.
If buying tools scratches some other itch beyond what you need to build the projects you have in mind, then it's a matter of something else, essentially inexplicable taste, "I like chocolate and you like vanilla." You'll find no shortage of people on woodworking forums ready to enable and encourage this sort of thing. There's nothing necessarily wrong with it, people 'collect' lots of things.
Speaking for myself and my own situation, if I decided to collect plumber's tools I fear somebody in my family would expect me to fix a leaking pipe someday. They would be sorely disappointed! Mere ownership of the tools does not a plumber make.
Bluekingfisher
Established Member
G S Haydon":1ng3kbd2 said:
No one has questioned Jacobs knowledge on certain matters, why bring that into the equation? The frustration, is his insistence the OP was wasting his money in buying new tools. No one asked him for his view on old tools, ( we know his views only too well) valued/compared against the new tools Jonny is collecting/buying? so why introduce the point?
I totally understand some may wish to buy old tools and spend time and effort fettling them to a useable condition, although that was not part of the thread. A bit like seeking advice on flea collars for dogs and responding with a comment about cat flaps (hammer)
How about Bill Gates sitting on an estimated personal fortune of $70 billion. That to me is wasting money. Do something with it!
David
http://www.gatesfoundation.org/
It's the largest private foundation in the world: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_%26_ ... Foundation
The public school system in Memphis received a huge (and ongoing I believe) grant from The Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation.
It's the largest private foundation in the world: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_%26_ ... Foundation
The public school system in Memphis received a huge (and ongoing I believe) grant from The Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation.
Kalimna
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I agree with most of what you say, David, but I think you might have picked the wrong target in Bill Gates. Had you said Steve Jobs, however..... (Before he died, obviously)....
The large chisel I have is from Blue Spruce DT chisel line, but I find it very useful for paring dowels, say. I agree the handle looks a little out of place, but to say it is flimsy is both inaccurate and rather foolish, given that you haven't held it, Jacob.
Adam
The large chisel I have is from Blue Spruce DT chisel line, but I find it very useful for paring dowels, say. I agree the handle looks a little out of place, but to say it is flimsy is both inaccurate and rather foolish, given that you haven't held it, Jacob.
Adam
Bluekingfisher
Established Member
CStanford":2i953t4a said:
Jeeeesus, Ok, bad example :roll: (and why would I compare Bill gates to a collection of woodworking planes anyway)
I note however you never queried my analogy with the cat flap?? or can i assume you are in agreement?
Good to know though you have intimate knowledge of Bill's Finances.
David
Cat Flap. A bisexual person. One who ''swings both ways''. Urban Dictionary
What's that to do with flea collars for dogs?
What's that to do with flea collars for dogs?
Bluekingfisher":1yr469uq said:
I guess. If his foundation's own website and Wikipedia constitute an 'intimate knowledge.'
bugbear
Established Member
Jacob
New Luddism. Wake up and resist.
Well there yer go then! Long and thin seem to be key words though - so that's agreed.
bugbear
Established Member
HTH.Jacob":2d9jnkkx said:
BugBear
G S Haydon
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Sorry David, I did not mean my response to come over poorly . The OP asked for a recommendation and Jacob gave his, a good value and appropriate option.
However Jonny has been enjoying going for something different. I just tend to ignore Jacobs points about wasting money. Although he did add the context if you just want to make something a cheap option will do the same job.
Again sorry if you thought I was being a twonk.
. The OP asked for a recommendation and Jacob gave his, a good value and appropriate option. However Jonny has been enjoying going for something different. I just tend to ignore Jacobs points about wasting money. Although he did add the context if you just want to make something a cheap option will do the same job.
Again sorry if you thought I was being a twonk
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