3mm Bevel Edged Chisel - Really?

[Bluekingfisher]

Setting up a stupendous woodshop and never really working wood. Buying expensive cookware and never really cooking. Setting up a home brew system and never really brewing. Buying expensive cycling equipment and riding 20 miles a week. Or doing any of these things to a level disproportionately less than the investment in whatever "kit" one deems is required.

That's all I'm talking about. If shopping is the real hobby then so be it. If that rankles somebody on an essentially anonymous forum then I would say the problem lies with person who somehow feels insulted or slighted. A chord must have been struck I guess.

Who was rankled on here? I missed that part. Or is that a straw person?

I was making more of a point that lots of things (like alcohol and expensive food) are at least as big of a waste as buying tools and not using them. Probably bigger. I've seen it even on woodworking boards, cry poor and then boast about dinner and wine.

Not a harmonious combination.

Why is it a waste of money.? The point being made is the spending of his own money on items he wants is surely not wasted money.

Perhaps if the guy made his living from woodworking and was only breaking even, or worse then one could consider it a waste of money. However, he is not, the money being spent is for pleasure, so why than is that a waste of his money. Unless of course you consider money is not for spending?

 

[iNewbie]

Slightly more now http://www.spacycles.co.uk/products.php ... b0s21p2868 but this is not an expensive bike. A lot of aspiring (and perspiring) newbies would pay a lot more and do a fraction of the mileage. Not unlike the fancy tool market - they'd be disappointed to find that all that cash made almost no difference to their performance! In fact there are a lot of expensive bikes around which don't get much use at all.

Sure its expensive. Near £1500 is a-lot to a lot of people. You could buy an old bike out of the local paper and fettle it, because you'll not need the performance the little extra's that near £1500 bike has cost you. How much is Hovis these days, Jacob? :wink:

 

[D_W]

Why is it a waste of money.? The point being made is the spending of his own money on items he wants is surely not wasted money.

Perhaps if the guy made his living from woodworking and was only breaking even, or worse then one could consider it a waste of money. However, he is not, the money being spent is for pleasure, so why than is that a waste of his money. Unless of course you consider money is not for spending?

I suppose if one has nobody who depends on them, that's the case. What used to be the norm (living within means) is now considered to be cheating someone else of your money. 30 years ago when I was a kid, seeing someone outspending their income or spending all of it made them a poser. Now it makes them normal. It strikes me that we all have no control over the things that could make us impoverished at any given time, so holding some back would be a big problem. If we're a bit tight about a dollar or two on something, and then willing to drink and pee ten times as much, it makes little sense.

Acting unreasonably with finances is by no means a new thing, though, it's just more common now, and it's more socially expected, I guess, to expend or outspend your income to keep up with someone else.

it's the work of the marketer to convince us that thinking about whether or not we really get the utility out of something is foolish. It's the work of the mark to overspend themselves on food and wine and then tell their kids to go to college on their own dime (this is something probably not quite as big of a deal in the UK if the college situation there is still such that most is paid for by the state. A scottish friend mentioned to us a few years ago that at least in scotland, it was free when he went and I think he said they were considering changing that but getting much resistance).

Much of the sentiment with all of this, I believe, has to do with the structures that are around us (e.g, in the UK, your marginal taxes may be higher but more basic needs are funded automatically - so what's left that's discretionary probably seems more discretionary. Same with post-secondary education).

I suppose that with all of us, there's a bit too much interest in what someone else does with their money, something also not new. The difference between now and several hundred years ago, the indigent includes not just the unfortunate, but also the stupid who put themselves there.

 

[bugbear]

Slightly more now http://www.spacycles.co.uk/products.php ... b0s21p2868 but this is not an expensive bike.

£1450 not expensive?!

You must have been charging a pretty penny for those sash windows!

Looks like a Dawes Galaxy would buy a decent table saw too;

http://www.tredz.co.uk/.Dawes-Classic-G ... wodMjAEFw#

Probably best keep quiet in future when someone spends 50 quid (or 1/29th of a bike :roll: ) on a chisel.

BugBear

 

[Jacob]

Dawes have upped the spec and the price. Mine was about £500 in 2004. First long trip on it was Lands End to John o Groats same year. Last year we pedalled from home to the S of France. This year we set off from home for Venice but had mishap in Cologne - hope to complete it next year. Couldn't do these things on a Halfords £89 job. Well you could but it wouldn't be much fun and you'd be doing a lot of mending. But you could have a good time on a Halfords cheapo and improve your cycling, nevertheless.
Doesn't really compare/contrast with woodwork tools but we're very mid range - good value tools for the job. There's a whole other lot who spend a lot more than us, some without getting much benefit - so that's similar at least! And most of the best kit is made in the far east, similarly.

PS Well it does compare perhaps - if a beginner cyclist asked should he buy a £2000 road bike you'd have to answer no of course not. In fact I recently bought an ideal beginners bike for my daughter - a Dawes Discovery 501, £58 on ebay.
But then TBH Derek's tools as listed aren't actually that good compared to various old Stanley/Record offerings so the comparison doesn't quite work

 

[JonnyW]

Wow. And all this due to a "a 3mm chisel" question.

If I've been the architect of the tone of this thread, then I apologise to the moderators and forum members unreservedly.

I'm at a loss as to how this descended into a discussion on how we should spend our disposable income. I made it clear that I'm no millionaire - tool collecting is my main hobby and interest and has been since I was given two Disston saws and a number 2 Stanley from my granddad when I was 13 years old (I'm 42).

Are we not allowed to discuss our obsessional tool collecting here? Are we not allowed to disclose the quantity of tools we own, for fear of being made to feel like a brag or a complete dick head?. Is this not a forum of like minded tool collectors and tool users, where we can discuss tools, wood and woodworking methods that would have our mates and wives throwing themselves under busses to alleviate their pain and boredom (I know the latter sounds good!).

Please post about your tool obsession. Show photos of your latest, silly, not really needed purchases or photos of your lavishly kitted out workshops. Because I'm really interested in seeing them and I really enjoy reading about it.

Let's speak about woodworking and tools.

Jonny

 

[Derek Cohen (Perth Oz)]

Jonny, fear not ... this is typical fare from a couple of members here. As soon as someone wants to purchase a tool, they become alarmed that the prospective owner may choose what they consider to be the wrong tool. It is as though they cannot help but take it personally believing that someone is masquerading as a woodworker.

Of course it is a case of the pot calling the kettle black.

Do not be discouraged. We have learned to take this all in fun. (It is especially fun to see Jacob spluttering and attempting to rationalise his expensive bike ... and we did not even hear about his even more expensive musical equipment).

Regards from Perth

Derek

 

[Trafalgar]

I have a 3mm Marples chisel that came with a set and I unhesitatingly use it as an ice pick, to unstop the vacuum cleaner hose, and occasionally in the shop as well to remove some little ticklish blip of wood, usually related to cutting dovetails. Truth be told an awl works almost as well for this.

There are lots of uses for a thin piece of steel with a handle. The point is to use it for something if you paid for it. If you have no use for it, get rid of it.

Use your imagination.

I used to play ping-pong with a 7" fry pan and wager a little money on the side. When I was finished it was just the right size for an omelet for one.

 

[bugbear]

The point is to use it for something if you paid for it. If you have no use for it, get rid of it.

Not at all, old fellow.

If you have no use for it, put it on a shelf in the shed, 'cos it's bound to come in handy.

BugBear

 

[Trafalgar]

Or seek professional help for hoarding disorder... just kidding.

 

[Jacob]

.....
Are we not allowed to discuss our obsessional tool collecting here? ......

Yes of course you are.
My only objection is that the unwary might get the impression that some of these expensive tools are essential and will radically improve their woodwork. They rarely are and they usually won't, which can be disappointing if you've laid out £100s on stuff you can get 2nd hand for peanuts.

 

[Zeddedhed]

I've just added to my collection of stuff I'll never use again - a discounted Axminster Dovetail Jig. Only £50 but an unmitigated piece of sh*t. It's engineered with the precision of a cowpat and is almost impossible to set it up square. There is so much flex in the template that you could use it to rout dovetails onto a football.

Sorry if this is hijacking the hijacked thread.

 

[JonnyW]

Ha ha ha ha. Excellent Zeddedhed. Hijack away mate.

Jonny

 

[Jacob]

I've just added to my collection of stuff I'll never use again - a discounted Axminster Dovetail Jig. Only £50 but an unmitigated piece of sh*t. It's engineered with the precision of a cowpat and is almost impossible to set it up square. There is so much flex in the template that you could use it to rout dovetails onto a football.

Sorry if this is hijacking the hijacked thread.

Polish it, make new handles with cocobolox, hang it on the wall; job done, join the club.

 

[Kalimna]

Rightyo then, in order to bring this thread back to the OP, here is a piccy of my smallest chisel, a shade over 3mm at the business end. Its resting on the nearest thing to hand, to give you an idea of size and profile. (Very handy for clearing nut-slots in guitar necks).

Next is the same chisel next to my largest lump (very useful for paring dowels), and for good measure a mallet made by the same chap.

And the mallet is used to adjust another lump of super-duper-iron in this fella :

Obviously, I only ever use them for collecting dust. They're far too important to risk damage by doing actual woodwork with them....
But they give me pleasure, and that is the most important thing a possession can do, isnt it, however that pleasure is gained.

Cheers,
Adam

P.S. The offer is open to anyone interested in trying them out, and is in the area, to pop in and natter about tools.

 

[Zeddedhed]

I've just added to my collection of stuff I'll never use again - a discounted Axminster Dovetail Jig. Only £50 but an unmitigated piece of sh*t. It's engineered with the precision of a cowpat and is almost impossible to set it up square. There is so much flex in the template that you could use it to rout dovetails onto a football.

Sorry if this is hijacking the hijacked thread.

Polish it, make new handles with cocobolox, hang it on the wall; job done, join the club.

Don't be daft. Once I've glued on my cracked and hollowed Norton India stone alongside a strip of my old granddads leather belt it'll make a top-class hand sharpening station.

Then I'll hang it on the wall.

 

[bugbear]

Next is the same chisel next to my largest lump (very useful for paring dowels), and for good measure a mallet made by the same chap.

I was going to ask what maker puts hollow ground bevel edges on chisels, but your photo is good enough (when clicked) that I can simply read the name!

Very nice.

BugBear

 

[Jacob]

Very odd that large chisel. Looks too heavy for a parer - they are made as thin as possible for one handed operation, with wide bevels etc. But it's got a flimsy handle much too light to hit, bearing in mind the weight of the blade.

 

[Bluekingfisher]

.....
Are we not allowed to discuss our obsessional tool collecting here? ......

Yes of course you are.
My only objection is that the unwary might get the impression that some of these expensive tools are essential and will radically improve their woodwork. They rarely are and they usually won't, which can be disappointing if you've laid out £100s on stuff you can get 2nd hand for peanuts.

I wasn't aware Jonny W was a beginner woodworker, certainly not from his opening gambit.

This point was confirmed when he later added he has been collecting since he was 13 years old, now 42. So around 29 years or so as a collector. I would suggest, rather than being a beginner, he would seem to me to be experienced and established. Although you never quite learn everything, do you?

Just another point to highlight your inaccuracy and irrelavence on this particular thread.

However, I tip my hat to you, you have, albeit belatedly acknowledged the point, whatever you do as a hobby should be fun, as you suggest when riding your bike to France (or wherever) so therefore does Jonny with his tool collecting.

I personally couldn't think of anything much worse (well I could) than riding to wherever for days on end, however If I had to, my old 89 quider could handle it no problem :lol: Other than the replacement of service parts I mentioned and a wipe over with a rag and a lick of oil from time to time on the chain, I estimate I have covered 20K miles on it over 10 years. What you reckon J, 8 - 10 return trips to the South of France? absolute bargain.

David

 

[JonnyW]

Love that large chisel. Very elegant looking thing. Is it not a paring chisel? the handle with the lip looks made for refined pushing or wiggling off thin slices.

However saying that, my 2" Ashley Iles bevel edged chisel is an absolute monster; obviously it's a parer, but I would have no issues using it for chopping or blattering the thing with a mallet.

I take your point Jacob about using tools within means and as per the frequency of their use. And I agree with you.

I served my time as a joiner with a set of split proof Marples chisels - which I still have. I also had in my box/van, a roll of 6 Robert Sorby bevel edged chisels - of which I only have 4 now unfortunately. They all got used and abused. The Marples on site, the Sorbies when I was in the workshop at a bench. I didn't need the Sorbies, I could've got by with the Marples - but I wanted them. I really enjoyed using them and in my head I thought they improved my joinery (you'll have to talk to my foreman to confirm if it did or not).

The point is now - years on - I still get the same buzz and feeling of excitement buying a new hand tool that I did when I was a youngster, whether it is a 19th century compass plane, or a £3.50 Stanley 102, .

My favourite plane is a 1920's Stanley 605. It was restored to death by a previous owner, so I stuck a Lie Niesen blade and chipbreaker in it (with an extended yoke pin and a bit of filing), and that things works like a dream. There is nothing like using a tool that has been pushed through wood for nearly a 100 years!. I just don't see many 100 year old bikes passing me in town - but what ever floats your boat.

My joinery now, consists of home projects and keeping family members happy. But I love and will always love the buying of a new tool.

Jonny